It is currently Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:55 pm

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1296 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63 ... 65  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:30 am
Posts: 471
Location: Napier
I sincerely hope you get to the bottom of this soon.

_________________
A Kiwi learning to fly in a Mk1.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:40 am
Posts: 955
Location: NZ
Me too!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:00 am
Posts: 1610
Location: Londoninium
How are you measuring oil pressure? Do you really have a problem or could it be the gauge lying?
GTP


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:40 am
Posts: 955
Location: NZ
ok so im tired but i did some trouble shooting today...
Im still not sure.

I put a Ryco filter on the other day when i put the thinner oil in...thats one change.
6 days ago I took the accumulator and the oil cooler out of the system and spun the little filter back on....I was using mobil one filters. But i ran out of them.
I got the same result as with the accumulator and oil cooler on so I concluded they were not an issue.

today Nick read the accumulator while I sat in the car and read the ECU oil pressure and compared it to the gauge. The ECU and gauge read with 5 psi of each other. I took off the oil block and bled it to ensure it wasn't getting air blockage and that made no difference.

On a hot rev....accumulator (pump side of filter) read 72 psi. Gauge read 52 psi and the ECU read 55 psi.
The gauge and ECU are reading from the normal oil pressure sender port which is after the filter.

Either its leaking down inside the engine too much reducing pressure after the filter or the filter is suspect....I dont understand why the Accumulator reads a much higher pressure so obviously the pump is pumping and changing the oil pressure relief won't do a thing but if the bearings were buggered why such good idle pressure? and surely the accumulator would not reach 72 psi???

so Im wondering if the ryco filter is creating a 20 psi drop???....Im going to try an actual oil pressure gauge tomorrow taken off from the oil pressure port....then Im going to spin a large cap filter on and try.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:38 am
Posts: 442
Location: Cust NZ
The sender units won't be super accurate bits of tech so with a 3 psi difference I think it's reasonable to assume that it's a fairly accurate pressure in the oil gallery.

The filter being a restriction and raising the oil pressure is a given but I have no idea of what the expected amount would be. Probably the cheapest/easiest test is to slap a bigger filter on and see what difference it makes. Best outcome, the increased flow increases the pressure in the gallery and problem solved, maybe. Worst outcome it makes no difference but you're one step further.

If it does increase the pressure then you'd still be asking why so much pressure drop with the trick small filter.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:40 am
Posts: 955
Location: NZ
yes Sam...i am at my wits end for sure. today I put a pressure gauge on the oil gallery. it showed a 12 psi difference cold and more hot. Im sure that might be normal as the oil heats...it gets more liquid.
the gauge showed that the other gauges sitting in the car seem accurate.

now i go about getting a different filter on. Im going to try a K and N HP1003. its larger than the stock OEM one and a lot bigger than the poxy ryco one.

after that ill know if pressure is any different.

then its thicker oil and because I cannot be bothered taking the sump off as I dont believe shimming the oil pressure relief valve will do a bloody thing...(because the accusump is showing good pressure) ill mod one of my sump plugs and stick the oil temp sender I have bought in there. yes no good for racing really but we need some data.

if those two things dont work then im ####ed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:40 am
Posts: 955
Location: NZ
sump is off....fitting a bosch oil temp sender. while its out shimming the oil pressure relief but dont really think it will help. tomorrow...15w50 motul.....new filter...then test.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:01 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Australia WA
and all your problems will be gone tomorrow after that =D>

_________________
GTI CAPPO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:40 am
Posts: 955
Location: NZ
GTI...like your enthusiasm and confidence....wish i had it!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:55 pm
Posts: 1
Location: Netherlands
Hello guys,

I'm by no means an engine expert, but I've seen some from the inside at least.

You have a very strange problem and I thougt it maybe the balls wich are pressed in the crank to block off the oil drill passages. If the crank cracks in the area around the ball ,under heavy load there could be an oil leak there.

In high revving engines the balls are removed and replaced with screws, to prevent getting lose because of vibrations and deformation/cracking of the crankshaft.

This might explain why the pressureloss is only present at high RPM, because of the G-forces of the oil in the spinning crankshaft the oil pressure is very high in the crankjournals and could be forcing its way out through a crack.

By the way your car looks great and I love seeing some NA spirit!

Best of luck with your troubleshooting

Henk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:40 am
Posts: 955
Location: NZ
Thanks for the idea Henk and welcome to my Build blog.

Hey its a knifed edged balanced crank that has had the balls removed and the grub screws put in and then peened over I believe.

But there was developments today.

1. More fuel pressure issues....I believe because of the silly routing of the return line initially into the main tank instead of the surge tank I have killed the main pump....Today blown fuse...just after fuel pressure all over the place and squealing. Tuner thinks I ran it dry and or cavitation has dry run it and killed it...got really hot. Bugger. Only Idle so ok there.

2. Rerouted back to standard tank setup...reset fuel pressure...now runs great...will just keep fuel tank full until I can reset the surge tank setup with a new pump.

3. Oil pressure....So did quite a few things...one or several things may have contributed to the result.

1. shim of 60 thou under the oil pressure relief valve.
2. 15w50 motul ( extract of gold i think....this stuff is expensive)
3. K and N Filter looks the same size as the ryco but the holes in the top of it are 1mm bigger in diameter however i concluded this would only be the OUT pressure to the accumulator and would not affect the IN pressure to the bearings. That does not mean though that this filter does not flow better than the Ryco. It may very well do.

Results.
Previously....Accumulator (after pump along with cooler and before oil filter)
Cold Idle.....68 psi....Hot rev to 7000 RPM.....72
..................OIL pressure to bearings (ecu and very accurate)
Cold idle ...62...........Hot rev to 7000 rpm.....52 to 55 (dependent on oil temp and length of rev) hot idle 35

Today.....Accumulator
Cold idle....82.5 to 85......Hot rev to 7000 RPM......80
.................OIL pressure to bearings
Cold idle....80.........Hot rev to 7000 RPM......72......Hot idle.......52 but builds to 70 psi by 3600 rpm.

So from a 20 psi drop between accumulator to bearings to an 8 psi drop. Same tests and same type of conditions.

I expect track hot will reduce pressure a little more. I am somewhat bemused by the accumulator and pressure to bearings reading almost the same today cold....I think that must be the thicker oil.

At this level we might be in the 60's track hot which would be great....but better not rev it too much cold ay.

Now i gotta drop the sump again and goop it with three bond....needed to test the shim before gooping.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:40 am
Posts: 955
Location: NZ
Quote:
and N Filter looks the same size as the ryco but the holes in the top of it are 1mm bigger in diameter however i concluded this would only be the OUT pressure to the accumulator and would not affect the IN pressure to the bearings. That does not mean though that this filter does not flow better than the Ryco. It may very well do.


Wow how friggin dumb am I? This is so wrong....these holes may have a direct impact on the before and after filter. The holes in the filter don’t go out to the accumulator at all....duh! The oil from the sandwich plate bypasses the cooler a certain amount until the oil is warm....it goes through these holes and direct through the filter media and into the engine bearings. After the oil thermostat opens all oil goes through the oil cooler. Pressure at the accumulator is always pump pressure wether the thermostat is bypassing or not because not all oil is bypassed. So the bloody filter holes and it’s flow would have a direct impact on the before and after filter pressures! The holes in the previous filters and now the k and n filter are both bigger than the Ryco one....I’ll bet that was some of the problem but not all.
I believe cold that Ryco filter had a pressure drop of at least 6 pounds because now cold both sides of the filter are almost the same......unless the oil has something to do with it.

Still think I need the 15w50 because of the bearing clearances though. They are inside book figures but nothing near the minimum. 8-[


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:40 am
Posts: 955
Location: NZ
POX...the surge tank fuel pump is totally fried....dry running...my fault....only problem is The tuner said did you check the fuel filter?...it looks like crap has not got through it as the out side has clear fuel when tipped onto a bit of white paper so i think the injectors should be fine and its a 10 micron. the IN side is different all manner of metal came out of it...very fine particles obviously from the commutator of the fried pump.

Tomorrow Ill check the injectors all flow the same...bit of work but better be safe...run some fuel through the rail and fuel pressure reg....But i reckon the 10 micron filter caught everything.

I have to replace it of course..like every other bloody part I have screwed up.

Going to get a Bosch 070...its only 130 LPH but good to 400 HP...aint going to get anywhere near that!
its cheaper and all the car needs really....best i make sure the surge is plumbed correctly and always full!!!!

So To drive on sunday I need a new filter..its saturday tomorrow....I have a 10 micron holley one here for the boat but it has 3/8 NPT fittings and I need adapters down to 5/16. Hope a mate that works at a hydraulic place can help tomorrow. I just use vapour guard filters on the car so I can remove the holley later and its rebuildable then put it in the boat and just buy a new vapour guard....they are not rebuildable...only replaceable....but still 10 micron. but only $14 USD. instead of the holley costing crap loads. we will only run with a full tank of fuel to prevent surge this weekend if we get to run...will try to have some data on the oil temp versus pressure and a few vids.

just another day in the ongoing saga of our little cultus racer.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:01 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Australia WA
Good luck for Sunday, hopefully all the hard work pays off :D
What else would you rather be doing if it wasn't for your little racer? Playing golf :cry:

_________________
GTI CAPPO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:40 am
Posts: 955
Location: NZ
Tks Cappo.
Well my wife would have me tripping all over the world....like I want to do that! Spend far too much time “around the world” and not at home. She married the wrong bloke for that. But she’s off to Brisbane in August and Japan for archery soon and then I have to pay for a darn cruise (which I’m actually looking forward too) in Xmas 2020....for 11 of us....grandkids included so I’m getting the money spent on the Mouse now.

Well....today I tackled wiring up the oil temp sender....normally I’d completely rewire the loom but today I surprised everyone including myself by simply running another set of 2 wires by themselves and had it done in half an hour! 8-[

Then Nick and I took the whole surge tank setup out of the car and replumbed for normal operation...had to find fittings for a Holley 10 micron filter I had for the boat. Got them but they were 3/8 npt to 3/8 barb....so I got the inlet done in 3/8 and the outlet done in 3/8 down to 5/16. 5/16 or 8mm is the normal size.

Removed the fuel rail and checked the flow of each injector and spray pattern. Patterns all looked the same....under 12 volts and normal pressure each injector squirted approx 60 mls of petrol in 15 secs....this was a rough test as I had fuel mist etc holding a mls container under the injector and livened up each separately while nick operated the fuel pump through the ecu and timed the “on” time I was doing with a 12 volt battery....yeah....trying not to do any sparks!
It was to ascertain any leakage from injectors and did they all flow the same amount. No leaks and all flowed the same....so no crap in them.
New filter meant fuel pressure went up by 4 psi! So the other was filled with commutator windings....doh!
Pulled the fuel pressure reg vac line off....set fuel pressure to 43.5psi while idling....
Warm oil pressure on rev....80 psi
Oil temp showing data.
Track tomorrow.
New territory for me....soaking in bath with glass of Pinot all locked and loaded for club day tomorrow at 6.30 pm. No midnight rubbish.
Fingers x. Boy driving with me harping in his ear till I’m happy with car.
Full track at Manfield tomorrow for first time and reverse full track in arvo. Closet time fwd to rev....wins.
:D


Attachments:
98B25BE4-BA32-4470-A7C6-D63B37018B6C.jpeg
98B25BE4-BA32-4470-A7C6-D63B37018B6C.jpeg [ 188.37 KiB | Viewed 33 times ]
8DB116B3-B3FD-4079-BDF3-3240CB1728F1.jpeg
8DB116B3-B3FD-4079-BDF3-3240CB1728F1.jpeg [ 118.7 KiB | Viewed 30 times ]
6A2373CD-E992-4321-80F7-48FFE19C2FA4.jpeg
6A2373CD-E992-4321-80F7-48FFE19C2FA4.jpeg [ 181.31 KiB | Viewed 30 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:40 am
Posts: 955
Location: NZ
Race day done. Car intact. [-o<
Just ran all day without issue except lambda controller....the sensor crapped its deckers I think.
Great differential fuel pressure. Oil not over 80 odd degrees but I have not been able t9 set up logs to check.
Oil pressure is the big winner here. Not below 72psi on track all day but only one lap runs....so not really tested as yet! Signs look good though.
Lifter tried to tap.... 8-[ ...next mod solid lifters.
Brakes still rubbish. Too much rear camber after lowing the car....definitely going to reduce that....not good in the wet. Turned the car around....looked at footage....boy used brake in corner again.we will do the next autocross in the donor car....he needs to learn FWD techniques. Don’t touch the effin brakes in the corner....esp wet!
In the dry he was getting quicker all day....but long track so new. Plus I had to get out of car so the girlfriend could get in lol.

Most problems solved...yay....only small thing before next round of winter series. Camber reduction in rear...easy....fix lambda.....easy.......look at front brakes and balance.....not hard but need to research.

Boat trailer from tomorrow on.
Good day today


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:38 am
Posts: 442
Location: Cust NZ
Glad is went well.

I reckon build those solids in a new head and make sure your cam bearing clearances are good as well. That might be enough to allow you to remove the shim from the pump.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:40 am
Posts: 955
Location: NZ
I Think ill just look at silver slugs in the hydraulic lifters Sam....the end....stop the lifter tap.....
Take the hit on power...its got plenty for what we want anyway.

tell you what it needs...better brakes....they suck. overheating unless we have endless pads in....
we need bigger rotors....plus reduce the rear camber...easy peasy.

apart from that and the new fuel pump and lambda sensor....thats all ill be doing before the next round in a few weeks.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:38 am
Posts: 442
Location: Cust NZ
I can certainly understand the desire just to use it as is. My only reservation would be that shimming the pump is a bit of a band aid fix. If I'm remembering correctly the engine that you rebuilt was pretty tired so chances are the head is pretty worn. If you've got a good head from the car you've wrecked then I'd say use that rather than adding to the risk of another crank failure. It doesn't need to be a full on race head, just a sound production spec head with std valves, springs etc.

Wilwoods on the front is the brake fix, unless you want to move to M16 uprights. It should be pretty simple. It should work with the standard mc, you just need to buy rotors, hats, calipers and get a mount milled. It's something you can do in the background while using the current setup and then swap it over when it's ready.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:40 am
Posts: 955
Location: NZ
the head on the car has been done with valves and port cleanup...the caps are good and the journals good...the clearance was a little too much and that was addressed by shaving the caps 1 thou. I think just getting the hydraulic lifters out will be enough....I won't be removing the shim...engine builder said its fine to leave in....not too much cold pressure at all. its the oil and filter thats fixed it i reckon.
we run larger clearances in the bottom end because of the power level....too much distortion and movement on an engine kills bearings if there is no give....the downside is oil pressure issues....this is all from the engine builder.....who has a 20 year association with a g13B offroader on the same power or slightly more i think. he runs the same clearances on that motor but solid lifters....refreshes it every few years....the buggy runs enduros revving up to 8500 rpm for extended periods....much more so than us.

so I have listened to all the info out there but ill go with the engine builder...see if it stays alive. 8-[

Brakes. I already run new swift uprights. are there different ones? I have the Znoelli discs at 240mm.
I think i can fit bigger under there no issues on the 15" wheels.....Ill troll the forum later tonight to see what I can find.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1296 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63 ... 65  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group