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 Post subject: Re: Bathurst Diff Ratios
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:19 pm 
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Steve wrote:
Hi James
I noticed in one of your earlier posts that you planned to gaff tape a tripod and video to the rear seats. I very much doubt that you will encounter a scrutineer who will pass that arrangement. They get a bit fussy about the potential for projectiles to be flying around the cabin. Maybe someone here can come up with a suggestion that will get you through your event on Monday .
Steve


Thanks Steve - yes, that is wise advice, the thought had crossed my mind too. :oops:

Probably the permanent answer is this purpose-build car camera mount..
http://www.vsport.com.au/gopro_camera/gopro_camera.php

As far as Monday goes, there may not be many realistic options..

The only one I can think of is if I made up a bracket about 40cm long, and screwed one end of the bracket to an existing bolt on the rear internal stiffening strut, and fitted the tripod head to the top of the bracket.
(So it would be a bit like a periscope peering up over the rear seat).
Is that worth trying? Would it be secure enough for a scrutineer to maybe pass?

Tekkie - thanks!! :D :D That may be my solution, although now I have been considering the problem perhaps I should continue to work on a safer solution!

Thanks!
James
PS, I also loved the sound of the GTi in that YouTube clip!! I was surprised at the diversity of cars entered too - even a Commodore!! :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Bathurst Diff Ratios
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:52 pm 
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I forgot that the back seats can fold down, so actually I can mount the mini-tripod directly on the back stabilising strut, and just attach it with a couple of metal hose clamps (eg from a radiator hose)

The view point is a bit low, but it is better than nothing..

Here are a couple of pics.. imagine the blue gaff tape is actually a metal hose clamp!


Attachments:
minitripod-on-back-strut.jpg
minitripod-on-back-strut.jpg [ 9.53 KiB | Viewed 7446 times ]
tripod-viewpoint.jpg
tripod-viewpoint.jpg [ 22.4 KiB | Viewed 7445 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Bathurst Diff Ratios
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:11 am 
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I would not recommend buying the current GoPro camera. They are battery hungry and the only thing worse than the video quality is the scratchy, clicky sound.

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 Post subject: Re: Bathurst Diff Ratios
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:56 am 
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Re suction cap mounts Tekkie. My son was going to buy this type of camera mount from ebay recently and I told him I would be suprised if they would pass CAMS regs although I have not checked this out as yet. He and I both have mini cameras we hope to use but we figured we would have to mount them on the roll bar (and try and overcome the vibration).
Alternatively I have seen a crew install their video camera after scrutineering [-X however there is always the risk you could get dragged from the grid and miss your run!

James re that video clip. We have all sorts of cars running from time to time including a twin engined turbo charged Camira, (One engine is in the boot) a 500 hp supercharged fairlane ,modern rally cars' , 1971 Datsun 1600,s (STILL competitive) and bog stock 30 yo Japanese cars.
Hope Mondays event goes well for you.
Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Bathurst Diff Ratios
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:46 am 
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once you go into the competition then most video mounts wont pass scrutineering.
I used a bullet cam mount and a DV camcorder which recoded the video secured securely on the floor. vibration for bullet cams was not a problem at all. The bullet cam was mounted directly to the rollcage diagonal using stainless hose clamps.

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2008: Mk1 TAR car, stock engine, open diff - 1/4mile 14.774 @ 91mph

2006: Mk1- yeah well at some stage to go on track...
2003-2005 Mk3(retired)- EC 1:54.6 , Wakefield 1:13.14 , OP (short) 52.00 , OP GP 1:24.40


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 Post subject: Re: Bathurst Diff Ratios
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:12 pm 
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Capt_Gherkin wrote:
Anyway, I'll update again on my learnings after I've done the track day on Mon, and plan to put a bit of video of it on Youtube too.. :D


Well my first track day was very exciting for the first 15min session, but near the end my oil pressure disappeared and that was it, until a tow truck back to Sydney :(

As a novice I found it a lot harder to pick the lines and stay on them, and I did slide off on the 'fishhook' turn at the middle once. In hindsight I think I was trying to go into the corners at too high a speed..
Anyway, tremendously exciting, and the other competitors were very helpful. There were some awesome cars out there too... glorious noise!!! :D :D

Thanks for your encouragement & assistance folks..
watch this space!!! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Bathurst Diff Ratios
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:15 pm 
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I was going to come down too.

Next time, ring me and I will tow you back, Im only an hour from there.

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 Post subject: Re: Bathurst Diff Ratios
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:24 pm 
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waylow wrote:
I was going to come down too.

Next time, ring me and I will tow you back, Im only an hour from there.


Waylow,
That is a very generous offer - thanks mate!!! :D

Actually I joined NRMA Premium Road service with exactly this in mind, and so the tow from Goulburn to Syd was ... FREE!!! Bless em!! :D :D :D :D :D

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 Post subject: Re: Bathurst Diff Ratios
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:31 pm 
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Your lucky, normally anywhere within Coo-ee of a race track and they dont want to know you.

This is why I have a ute and trailer.

I'll be going down on Saturday, more than welcome to come and have a look.

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 Post subject: Re: Bathurst Diff Ratios
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:47 pm 
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It sounds as if you have not lost any of your enthusiasm James despite a few problems.
If you are going to travel any distance to compete a trailer is a good investment as it gives peace of mind on the day. At least you are already analysing your driving technique which will result in improved times. There is an old motorsport adage..."slow in, fast out".
Keep us informed.
Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Bathurst Diff Ratios
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:15 pm 
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Did you record any lap times, James? Best way to gauge your improvement when trying new techniques/settings.

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 Post subject: Re: Bathurst Diff Ratios
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:01 am 
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[YLD80Y] wrote:
Did you record any lap times, James? Best way to gauge your improvement when trying new techniques/settings.


dont bother changing things unless you can post consistent times. any changes then will become meaningful.

try to get to within 0.5 secs of your previous lap 3 laps at a time. Remember to let the brakes and tyres cool down after no more then 5 laps.

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2008: Mk1 TAR car, stock engine, open diff - 1/4mile 14.774 @ 91mph

2006: Mk1- yeah well at some stage to go on track...
2003-2005 Mk3(retired)- EC 1:54.6 , Wakefield 1:13.14 , OP (short) 52.00 , OP GP 1:24.40


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 Post subject: Re: Bathurst Diff Ratios
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:08 am 
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You had a really unlucky intro to track days. Hope it won't put you off.

IMO the best way to improve is to spend on the driver first, not the car. Before starting I did a 2 day track driving course at the Peter Finlay driving school and it was a great way into it. Doesn't make you into an instant hot-shot, but at least I had an idea what I was trying to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Bathurst Diff Ratios
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:32 am 
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Pugman wrote:
You had a really unlucky intro to track days. Hope it won't put you off.

IMO the best way to improve is to spend on the driver first, not the car. Before starting I did a 2 day track driving course at the Peter Finlay driving school and it was a great way into it. Doesn't make you into an instant hot-shot, but at least I had an idea what I was trying to do.


Thanks John,

That is certainly a good suggestion.
I just looked up his training and there are a few options and prices not too painful. And the 2day course is run almost every month.
http://www.finlays.com.au/pages/courses.html

Thanks for your encouragement on the day too!! :)

YLD80Y - no the first session did not have any lap times recorded (to encourage you to take it easy :wink: ) And I was out of action at the end of that session.
I did see how hard it is to get times below 1:20 at Wakefield, so am even more impressed with the 1:13 etc times that Racer5 & Tekkie have got! =D> )

Steve - ..."slow in, fast out" - exactly right!!! I had read the theory, but applying it as a novice was the struggle initially!! :lol: I was starting to improve, but was a long way off smooth and neat!!

Waylow - I agree that I was very lucky NRMA agreed to the tow, so think I will rent a car trailer next time..
Thanks for the offer but I'll be away with work next weekend.

So yes - I am definitely not put off, it has whet my appetite ...and definitely I am a bit more realistic now!! Had to happen!! :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: Bathurst Diff Ratios
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:49 am 
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Well, it is not a bad idea but maybe you don't have to spend money on driving lessons. I think you'll find it interesting to discover how laptimes tumble as you learn for yourself how a car behaves and reacts. For starters, in a weak front wheel drive car like our suzukis, I think you should always brake early enough to insure hitting the apex, hit the apex decisively and when you're sure you won't lift -floor it(or push the pedal enough to accelerate and not just spin the inside wheel).
One thing I find very useful when the stopwatch is on is just using the whole road. Safe and great for consistency as well. Just let it use all the road with full throttle.

It all starts from the braking point but it's crucial to hit the apex with the right speed and angle, it's easy(and fast!!!) from there.
I think in all racing, it's crucial to have a vision of your line, you adapt everything to it really, and you can practice that at normal speeds in normal driving conditions on any less densed tighter road.


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 Post subject: Re: Bathurst Diff Ratios
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:22 am 
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in lower powered cars the corner speed is paramount. Being smooth, consistent and following the line that works for you is very important. 1:20 is quite good for initial outing. I remember spinning my Pug306 at the fishhook (turn8) at WP on my 1st outing. I was scared shitless, and amazed how long it took the car to stop once on the grass.

As others have also mentioned, ask the quick guys for advice. Make up your own mind whose information is worth keeping, and above all try to improve your own times. Dont look too hard at others. Enjoy.

There was a checklist of things to do a track day I'll see if i can dig it up.

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2008: Mk1 TAR car, stock engine, open diff - 1/4mile 14.774 @ 91mph

2006: Mk1- yeah well at some stage to go on track...
2003-2005 Mk3(retired)- EC 1:54.6 , Wakefield 1:13.14 , OP (short) 52.00 , OP GP 1:24.40


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 Post subject: Re: Bathurst Diff Ratios
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:07 pm 
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Capt_Gherkin wrote:
Steve - ..."slow in, fast out" - exactly right!!!

For rwd yes, for fwd, not neccessarily, make sure your driving school has specialist training for fwd cars as the lines and techniques can be quite different, with fwd you can brake later and steer into the corner much later and as Tekkie mentioned corner speed is paramount, many guys changing from rwd to fwd brake too hard and early and lose precious corner speed.


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 Post subject: Re: Bathurst Diff Ratios
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:13 pm 
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Dattman wrote:
Capt_Gherkin wrote:
Steve - ..."slow in, fast out" - exactly right!!!

For rwd yes, for fwd, not neccessarily, make sure your driving school has specialist training for fwd cars as the lines and techniques can be quite different, with fwd you can brake later and steer into the corner much later and as Tekkie mentioned corner speed is paramount, many guys changing from rwd to fwd brake too hard and early and lose precious corner speed.


I agree with your "not necessarily" comment. I was actually simply responding to James' post where he said he was entering the corners too fast and struggling to hold his desired line. There are so many variables and I think it would be very easy to confuse a new competitor. If I was him I would get out there ,try not to overdrive and just follow generally acceptable competition lines for a while and see if reasonably consistent times come before looking to take his driving to a higher level. If he does go to a driving school he should do his homework before choosing one. I have encountered competition driving instructors in motorsport events and some are pretty average drivers....
Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Bathurst Diff Ratios
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:54 pm 
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Capt_Gherkin wrote:
Waylow - I agree that I was very lucky NRMA agreed to the tow, so think I will rent a car trailer next time..
Thanks for the offer but I'll be away with work next weekend.

So yes - I am definitely not put off, it has whet my appetite ...and definitely I am a bit more realistic now!! Had to happen!! :oops:


Next time you want to go, let me know. I will be more than happy to tow you down there and back to my place (I live right near Pheasants nest, only 1hr to WP), so long as you pay for my fuel and help you out for the day.

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