Guide to:a proper G16B conversion with pics

Everything technical and mechanical
4 banger
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now i realised how much of a pain it is to search the site etc etc regarding this stuff only to find insufficient data or material available so i MODS can u PLEASE make a STICKY on this? thanks :D this is for the benefit of those in the future who are thinking of this swap.....this article is for those who DO NOT have access to the Baleno 1.6 1/2 shafts or the bell housing(as they bolt on directly onto the g16 block itself) I'll assume that you'll be using the standard GTI gearbox and 1/2 shafts for this one...now 1st things 1st....
what u'll need:
1.of course...the GTI head...
g16conv.1.jpg
2.G16B block(I'll be using the 16 Valve version)
g16conv.2.jpg
g16conv.2.jpg (55.43 KiB) Viewed 30306 times
gaskets i'd reccomend to use a stock GTI gasket or a thinner one if u can...stock is 1.2MM...i'll be using a suzukisports 0.8mm gasket for this conversion...
3.timing belt issues: u'll have to use the timing belt from the B16A honda engine(not sure why the 2L prelude timing belt didnt fit)...as for tensioners...the GTI ones will do just fine...
4.piping:the metal pipe which connects from the water pump to the bottom hose of the radiator : use the one from the GTI
DSC00104.JPG
5.I dont reccomend using the stock G16 pistons...Compression is WAY too low...(8.6:1 even with a 0.8mm thick gasket coupled with an extremely milled head..get D16 pistons if u possible or best way to go is custom forge a set of GTI pistons but make it 75mm...
6.what can be used over onto this conversion from the g13B:
.crank pulley
.alternator
.flywheel/clutch
.extractors(that depends on what brand and make u are talking about...if not u'll have to extend the runners as they wont clear the sump.

modifications required:
the gearbox and driveshafts wont align properly as u can see from the below pic(taken from http://www.nox6.nl) leaving a gaping hole at the sides
g16conv.3.jpg
g16conv.4.jpg
what u need to do is re-weld the gearbox and the block on the following locations:(enlarged images so that you guys can have a better look)
at the block where the driveshaft bolts onto
DSC00089.JPG
at the part where the gaping hole used to be
DSC00091.JPG
and finally around the starter motor area...
DSC00090.JPG
all these need to be done with the engine suspended from a crane(which makes life a lot easier) and with the compete gearbox(not just the bell housing alone) so that you can align the driveshafts properly(important!!)

I'll update this thread as much as possible according to the qns that i'm being thrown at...as i'm currently undergoing this conversion it'd be a great time....
Last edited by 4 banger on Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:52 pm, edited 7 times in total.
bzchi
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I think you would be better off using the attachment feature for your pics.
4 banger
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how do i do that??? sorry for sounding like a noob :oops: :oops:
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It'll have an upload/attachment part at the bottom when you go to post.
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4 banger
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-edited-
Last edited by 4 banger on Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
bzchi
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If we stickied every detailed technical thread the first page would be full of stickies.

We can add it to the technical FAQ which will mean it is catalogued for future use.
dmwdave
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This looks like a thread on how NOT to do the conversion!!
Welding lugs on the block for the drive shaft centre bearing mount is crazy,you could easily have distorted the block internals, the block now really needs to be tunnel bored for the crank bearings and overbored for the piston bores!!!.You could easily have got hold of a bearing carrier from a 1600 and fitted it to the gti shaft,or better still used the 1600 gearbox as its stronger anyway.
If parts are that scarce in singapore then one advert on here looking for a baleno bell housing to mate to your gti box ,or a 1600 box and driveshafts would have got instant results and looked like a factory job rather than some backyard lash up.
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gave him all the info on msn ...
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what year model honda prelude was the timing belt off?
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is that pic above showing the bellhousing welded to the block?

if it is wow, thats a little extreme.


How are you going to change a clutch?
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Puss-on-Boost
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marshy wrote:is that pic above showing the bellhousing welded to the block?

if it is wow, thats a little extreme.


How are you going to change a clutch?
If its welded to the block, why has he also put the bolts in?

I don't think its all welded together
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fair enough.
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[YLD80Y]
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The welded section looks like an adaptor to mate the G13B box with the G16B block.
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Its U its Me
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marshy wrote:is that pic above showing the bellhousing welded to the block?

if it is wow, thats a little extreme.


How are you going to change a clutch?
LOL

I think its just plate to close the gap on the belhousing and to mate to the block :wink:
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4 banger
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Its U its Me wrote:
marshy wrote:is that pic above showing the bellhousing welded to the block?

if it is wow, thats a little extreme.


How are you going to change a clutch?
LOL

I think its just plate to close the gap on the belhousing and to mate to the block :wink:
yes thats correct...
4 banger
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engine is now assembled... :D
Attachments
DSC00103.JPG
DSC00102.JPG
DSC00095.JPG
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d
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marshy wrote:is that pic above showing the bellhousing welded to the block?
if it is wow, thats a little extreme.
How are you going to change a clutch?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I love when Homer Simpson posts on redlinegti!

I have to say that welding a block like that is quite risky.
Aircraft people do it all the time with light aircraft and besides bad quality fuel I dont
see any other reason for so many failure rates.

However welding the bellhousing is nothing to hark over about if the guy can do it why not.

A baleno box is stronger and going to a twin cam head on a big block is no real gain when the
sohc 16v ports are better shaped from factory and valves are bigger on the inlets already.
The sohc 16v can be further ported for corrections and increased flow as they also have more
meat in critical areas where the twin cam heads hit water jackets.

In speedway the suk sohc 16v on a 1070cc block are showing just over 190bhp at 10,000rpm
with methanol quad injection. The twin cam head was designed for a 1300cc. If it was designed for the 1.6 it would be a different beast more like a sr16de neo head 160hp straight out.

So the whole point of the twin cam big block is a lot of work for virtually no gain except extra weight.

If the same amount of work is put on a cam, some cleaning up of the slags on the ports including match porting an extrude honed manifold with properly shaped exhausts, arp bolts
throughout, better rods and bolts, decent flywheel, clutch and full balance the sohc 16v is a better bet. Even better bet is Itsdamo´s own turbo g16b setup.
4 banger
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whatever it is my block isnt stock as its got a fully balanced bottom end with a knife-edged crank and lightened flywheel...cams and other stuffs are replaced as well...so this wont be just a "bolt on" conversion for me... :?
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Don't recall anyone saying it was =;
The main point I noticed in the last post was he stated that the Twin Cam 1300 head was designed for just that, the 1300. Whilst saving weight with a Single overhead cam good gains can still be made with some work.
Am I wrong? It was very involved so It may have went over my head :P
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Yeah as "d" pointed out, the 1600 head has much greater flow potential than the 1300 DOHC. It has been proven by a few people over the years.
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tekkie
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that may be correct but there is not much wrong with fitting the G13B head to a G16 bottom end. It has been done before and does provide a "torquey" solution for the Swift.

The cams can be individually tuned without the hassle of trial and error you get with single camshaft.
The EFI including the wiring can be retained specially if the user is happy to put up with less then optimised fuelling map (or use Apexi or similar MAF interceptor unit that can be further smoothed out). Ideally AFR should be checked at the end and fuel pressure or injectors modified to bring it into the safe zone.

For street application you could do a lot worse.
And we arent talking about the ultimate power setup here but rather street car using mostly off the shelf parts with minimal expenditure in time and $$$.

2008: Mk1 TAR car, stock engine, open diff - 1/4mile 14.774 @ 91mph

2006: Mk1- yeah well at some stage to go on track...
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4 banger
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its not really minimal time here as like i mentioned before we do not have access ot the baleno half shaft and bell housing here...if we did it'd be alot easier....and what did u mean by less than optimised fuel map? I'll be running a SARD FPR with a greddy emanage piggyback...is that enough?
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tekkie
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Fuelling for the 1.3 will not be good enough for the 1.6L (obviously).
If the interceptor allows you enough flexibility with altering the map then yes . Hard to say till you try.

2008: Mk1 TAR car, stock engine, open diff - 1/4mile 14.774 @ 91mph

2006: Mk1- yeah well at some stage to go on track...
2003-2005 Mk3(retired)- EC 1:54.6 , Wakefield 1:13.14 , OP (short) 52.00 , OP GP 1:24.40
sameerb1
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so how much HP do we expect from a G16B conversion? i mean Suzuki Baleno is stock 88-92HP and G13B is around 100HP...the 13B head and 16B block then how much HP would produce?
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sameerb1
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so is it worth the hybrid?
is making the hybrid cheaper than swaping with a d16 honda?
was the swap easy? becasue i am looking at the gap at the tranny...dunno how it would work...
when are you going to run the engine so we know how its doing?
4 banger
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sameerb1 wrote:so is it worth the hybrid?
is making the hybrid cheaper than swaping with a d16 honda?
was the swap easy? becasue i am looking at the gap at the tranny...dunno how it would work...
when are you going to run the engine so we know how its doing?
its already running in my car and its fine...all it needs now is a piggyback which i havent installed (only adjusted the AFR via the fuel pressure regulator with a wideband O2 sensor to help) and it just covered 2000Kms of non stop state to state driving without any hiccups 8)
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so whats the redline and is the car any faster?
4 banger
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8000Rpms but i wont wanna go anything more than that....cars alot more drivable around town even though my flywheel and crank have been lightened quite considerably...with BD10 cams...gonna install a greddy emanage and fine tune the mapping as i'm running it with a rospen chip @ the [email protected]/h in 5th gear the engines damn responsive and u can just floor the damn thing and it just responds
Yanz
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:lol: sounds Nice. IS the block built or just stock because ive read threads here saying to never pass 6500 rps on the stock block. so when i'm doing my conversion i'll like to refer to you for some information
4 banger
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as i have pointed out before....My crank is knife edged and balanced together with the lightened flywheel and underdrive crank pulley...so vibrations are reduced by a fair emount...all parts are stock
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how much lighter do you have your flywheel that stock? As I have been told that lightening the flywheel will put more stress on the crank itself during changes in speed ie.[accelleration/decelleration] Due to the fact that the crank is not recognised the most hot-shot bit of gear in the first place.

And you say you have gone to 8000rpm? What rods/rod bolts are you running? As rod bolt failure is a major problem for the long stroke g16b bottom end especially above 6500 the factory rpm

Haha biggest problemin my car at the moment is the clutch hmm brand new excedy h/d= slip to the max on boost every gear :wink:
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8000rpms but not sustained...cos i have no idea where to get ARP rod bolts for this G16 bottom end :|
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Suzikird used to have them maybe try to contact them
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In the Swift, you get the feeling that the car could probably go even faster if it didn't have you, a mere human being, dicking about at the wheel. The GT-i is part car, part Terminator.
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n0madic
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crizby wrote:how much lighter do you have your flywheel that stock? As I have been told that lightening the flywheel will put more stress on the crank itself during changes in speed ie.[accelleration/decelleration] Due to the fact that the crank is not recognised the most hot-shot bit of gear in the first place.

And you say you have gone to 8000rpm? What rods/rod bolts are you running? As rod bolt failure is a major problem for the long stroke g16b bottom end especially above 6500 the factory rpm

Haha biggest problemin my car at the moment is the clutch hmm brand new excedy h/d= slip to the max on boost every gear :wink:
err , the g16 will happily rev to 8600

i disagree on the crank not being happy with the rev with a lightened flywheel , the stress with the longer stroke is on the rods , the reciprocating mass of the pistons pulling and pushing on the rods. you will break a rod before you break a crankshaft.
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crizby
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nomadic wrote
err , the g16 will happily rev to 8600

i disagree on the crank not being happy with the rev with a lightened flywheel , the stress with the longer stroke is on the rods , the reciprocating mass of the pistons pulling and pushing on the rods. you will break a rod before you break a crankshaft.
And with all that stress on the rods that is why the rod bolts are the first to go... gotcha,
but is that also the reason that people believe that G16B crank will bend at high revs? I have to say that when i compared a G13B and G16B crank they dont look that different. Apart from the hollow sections where the rods are and i take it this would be the point of failure.

So far ive taken mine to 6500+rpm on low boost and havent had any problems.still running it in though Soon 15psi and say 8000rpm = WOOO
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In the Swift, you get the feeling that the car could probably go even faster if it didn't have you, a mere human being, dicking about at the wheel. The GT-i is part car, part Terminator.
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where did you source your rods and bolts and how much did it run you?

You know i always found doubt in some of the information about the g16 crankshaft in these threads. I always believe the damages were caused by ill treatment of these engines. i have a G16 bottom end on the ground and its sure as hell going into my car fully built no questions asked. these lil 1300's need some top end. I would love to be able to kill a honda B16 civic wiithout any turbo. That day i will tell myself i am getting somewhere :twisted: heh.
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Due to a seizure of the camshaft on my swift 1.6 GA I was left searching for a replacement head. A lack of funds made the task difficult until i found a gti head c/w fuel injection system wiring loom and ecu at a bargain price. Having reassembled the engine using a Honda cshaft drive belt a thicker head gasket and a small belt tensioner from a GTi all appeared to be going well. I pluged in the wiring loom (could not find oil pressure sensor lead but bought a pressure gauge and connected that) however none of the normal warning lights appeared on the dash display and there was no spark at the plugs. Strangely too the power mirrors do not work either.
As you may guess I am an absolute beginner in this type of convertion should I have changed the coil too? Does anyone know the compatability of the wiring harnesswith the existing wiring in thecar? any help would be appreciated.
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along with the engine loom you have to change the engine bay loom as well, and yes put the gti coil in.
Ozmotorsport Performance
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In the Swift, you get the feeling that the car could probably go even faster if it didn't have you, a mere human being, dicking about at the wheel. The GT-i is part car, part Terminator.
bernie1944b
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Crizby thanks for the help, the engine bay loom you refer to incorporates the coil connections and runs to the main fuse box? Do I also need to change the vacuum canister?

Thanks
Bernie
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bernie1944b wrote:Due to a seizure of the camshaft on my swift 1.6 GA I was left searching for a replacement head. A lack of funds made the task difficult until i found a gti head c/w fuel injection system wiring loom and ecu at a bargain price. Having reassembled the engine using a Honda cshaft drive belt a thicker head gasket and a small belt tensioner from a GTi all appeared to be going well. I pluged in the wiring loom (could not find oil pressure sensor lead but bought a pressure gauge and connected that) however none of the normal warning lights appeared on the dash display and there was no spark at the plugs. Strangely too the power mirrors do not work either.
As you may guess I am an absolute beginner in this type of convertion should I have changed the coil too? Does anyone know the compatability of the wiring harnesswith the existing wiring in thecar? any help would be appreciated.
Why a thicker head gasket? I'm using a suzukisports 0.8mm head gasket along with a milled head and it works fine
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he can also look for the three wires that ground the sensors around the engine. thay are grounded on the side of the intake manifold. If these wires are not grounded the ecu will show the check engine light
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DeTune
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Just to say, I had a samurai and the aftermarket made a adapter plate to mount the G16 motors to the samurai's G13 tranny. Its basically a plate that you bolt to the tranny with countersunk bolts and then the G16 motor bolts to the plate......The samurai tranny and swift tranny bell housing are the same as they both use G13 motors

As you can see here. It has the plate bolted to the gbox with countersunk bolts so they would fit flush with the tranny adapter plate so it wouldn't interfere with the engine.. Then it has two bolt holes outside those countersunk bolts for the G16's lower bolts...The lower bolt is sent from the gbox end and requires a half head bolt as a full headed bolt would interefere with the gbox housing.
Image

Image

All mounting hardware is included in the kit...The adapter plate, the studs for the two upper mounting holes, the countersunk bolts for securing the plate to the gbox and the half headed bolts for the securing engine to adapter plate. Depends on who you buy it from, you'll get unwanted engine mount bracets for the conversion into the samurai.
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DeTune wrote:Just to say, I had a samurai and the aftermarket made a adapter plate to mount the G16 motors to the samurai's G13 tranny. Its basically a plate that you bolt to the tranny with countersunk bolts and then the G16 motor bolts to the plate......The samurai tranny and swift tranny bell housing are the same as they both use G13 motors

As you can see here. It has the plate bolted to the gbox with countersunk bolts so they would fit flush with the tranny adapter plate so it wouldn't interfere with the engine.. Then it has two bolt holes outside those countersunk bolts for the G16's lower bolts...The lower bolt is sent from the gbox end and requires a half head bolt as a full headed bolt would interefere with the gbox housing.
Image

Image

All mounting hardware is included in the kit...The adapter plate, the studs for the two upper mounting holes, the countersunk bolts for securing the plate to the gbox and the half headed bolts for the securing engine to adapter plate. Depends on who you buy it from, you'll get unwanted engine mount bracets for the conversion into the samurai.
What about the gearbox input shaft length to the clutch and spiggot bearing, wouldnt it be too short?
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mcmancuso
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I too had this same question about the plate, and spacing the transmission and engine farther apart...
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Pauly
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My Sierra has the same adaptor plate. I'm using a longer throw out bearing, everything else is fine lengthwise.
Can't see why it wouldn't be the same case for this conversion
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Rhinoman
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Pauly wrote:My Sierra has the same adaptor plate. I'm using a longer throw out bearing,
Where did you source that?
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I measured the height required and got it from my clutch supplier.
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Hi mates,

did anybody used d16 pm7 type pistons for this conversion? Is it a direct fit or should the deck be lowered? What about the conrods what do you suggest? I started to get things together for this conversion so i would appriciate any informations.

BR, Luka
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Bewitched Gti
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Suitable cambelt for this conversion is for a Honda CRV
125 tooth of the correct tooth profile, belt width 24mm
Use gti tensioner, with slight alterations to tensioner (or remake tensioner plate)
Just updating this as I've found a few sources of conflicting info, and in my case this belt was the best solution.
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