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 Post subject: Could coil be culprit...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:37 pm 
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Location: brisbane
Son took Sierra to Glasshouse mountains yesterday. It was the first real 4x4ing the new gti engine has done apart from a bit of beach work and it went well, however, today on the way home from work, it died... When trying to start it, with all the spark plug leads off the plugs, it has a spark from the coil jumping to the chassis rather than a spark from the leads to the rocker cover... Does that mean it has a crack in the coil ???? It went through a LOT of mud and deep puddles yesterday. Any thoughts, apart from "don't drive cars through deep muddy puddles !" which was my suggestion to him.... :roll: My 4x4 never sees mud, I just couldn't do that to my car...Any thoughts would be appreciated.. At the moment the car is sitting on the side of the road waiting for a mate with a trailer to pick it up. I have no idea what to do... :oops: Once you add muddy water to the list of potential causes I kind of get out of my depth....


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 Post subject: Re: Could coil be culprit...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:30 am
Posts: 257
Location: Napier
If the lead from the coil to the distributor is off and the spark is going from the coil to the chassis, then yes, the coil is the problem. New coil required.

Drive them through muddy water, as long as they can handle it (sealed, snorkel etc etc) as it is so much fun!
The cleaning is not as much fun though...

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A Kiwi learning to fly in a Mk1.


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 Post subject: Re: Could coil be culprit...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:27 pm 
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Location: brisbane
I tried another coil this afternoon , thanks to pictureshowman but it didn't fix the problem. It just turns over with no sign of life. I took one spark plug lead off and rested it on the exhaust and turned it over to see if there was a spark. I won't be doing that again. It made THE loudest backfire I have ever heard.. Like a high powered rifle going off. I am still waiting for the cops to turn up...Plan "B" is to connect a spare number plate bulb to the CEL wires that are lying under the dash hanging from the ecu to see if there is any clues in the codes.. The tracks up at the Glasshouse mtns have been bulldozed recently and to the delight of my sons friends, he accidentally did a jump with almost a meter of air. It landed well on a downhill slope but that could have caused something to come loose. When it stopped last night, it was just coasting down the Samford range and after it stopped he mucked around checking leads, hoses etc and it started and ran well for a few minutes, then when he shut the door and went to drive away, it stopped again and hasn't restarted since. I am sure it is nothing serious but I just can pin it down. I was going to sus it out this afternoon but Laurie and I sat around and chewed the fat for 2-3 hours and the day got away from me but I did get home with enough light to get it down the driveway and under the house. We used the other sierra and a tow rope from the front to slow the broken one down as we descended out driveway. It is 200+ meters long and steep enough to get to over 80 kph if you coast down it so I wasn't keen on rolling down without brakes as there is nowhere to go at the bottom that doesn't involve a very sudden stop, loud crunching noises, broken stuff, blood and tears...Anyway, tomorrow I will endeavor to rig up the CEL and see if that gives me a clue..


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 Post subject: Re: Could coil be culprit...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:44 pm 
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Location: Napier
Any clues?

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 Post subject: Re: Could coil be culprit...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:50 pm 
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Location: brisbane
Well after hours of head scratching..I decided to bight the bullet and try and get the dizzy cap off. There is only 25mm between the top of the cap and the firewall in a Sierra. It wasn't as hard as I thought and once I got it off, my suspicions were confirmed.........The screw had fallen out of the rotor button....That was the only thing I could think of that could cause it to just suddenly die...The cam timing was perfect, all the plugs were firing, all the injectors were firing, fuel pressure was good, everything looked perfect, just wouldn't start or run...
One thing I was wondering about is....every dizzy cap I have ever seen has a spring loaded center connection pin, or, the rotor had a sprung top terminal... This has neither and after measuring depth, height etc, it seems that there is maybe a 2mm gap between the rotor and the cap....Is this normal for the spark to have to jump across there ??????? The center connection pin from the coil looks like it is carbon and is a little ragged around the edges.. I am thinking the cap may need replacing although the engine, now that the screw is back in the rotor, is running like a dream so I am tempted to leave things alone but should there be a gap there ????


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 Post subject: Re: Could coil be culprit...
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:03 am 
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Location: Brisbane
All the dizzy caps i have used have the usual spring loaded terminal.


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 Post subject: Re: Could coil be culprit...
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Location: brisbane
Yes... That has been my experience as well.. Because of the lack of room it has a cap that has the leads going out the side at 90 degree to the engine. I think the cap is off a 89ish Mazda 323 turbo dizzy. I will try to find a new one to compare..


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 Post subject: Re: Could coil be culprit...
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:19 pm 
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This is the cap I need...https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fuelmiser-D ... itleDesc=0
I would love to know if the center post is sprung or static level with the sounding steel housing for the post.


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 Post subject: Re: Could coil be culprit...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:31 pm 
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Location: Brisbane
I also have an old sierra/drover that i was thinking about putting the g13b into and at the time i could get a 90 degree adapter to suit the stock dizzy. I can’t renember exactly who was selling them. It could have been suzisport here in Brisbane from memory. Let ne think about it a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Could coil be culprit...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:50 pm 
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Location: brisbane
Yes I have seen those.. This 90degree cap setup came as part of the gti conversion (kit). I am not sure how much room there is with the dizzy adapter style. I was pleasantly surprised that I was able to get the cap off last week. It was the first time I had tried to remove the cap since installing the gti engine. Repco are getting me in a JP 706 cap tomorrow so I will find out then if mine is faulty or not..


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 Post subject: Re: Could coil be culprit...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:54 pm 
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Location: Brisbane
I came across a old forum in the US which a guy said it did what it was supposed to. No mention of it being tight. He was happy. They are still in business i think.


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 Post subject: Re: Could coil be culprit...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:14 pm 
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Location: Brisbane
I came across a another redlinegti thread about this exact thing.

http://www.redlinegti.net/forum/viewtop ... a&start=20

I found the same was from other sites as well. Maybe if you email suzisport they still might have some or worked out using the gti dizzy and adaptor properly. I always thought it took a stock gti dizzy and cap. Not sure if this link works.


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 Post subject: Re: Could coil be culprit...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:33 pm 
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Thanks for the link.. I tried to update that thread but it wouldn't let me. I was going to add the part numbers.. The rotor # is JR400 and the cap (90degree) is # JP 706 ... Both available at repco however the cap is $75 at repco and $45 on ebay..


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 Post subject: Re: Could coil be culprit...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:21 pm 
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Location: Brisbane
So is it set up like this? This doggy photo shows a mk1 dizzy by the looks of the vacuum advance unit. I was thinking mk3 ecu and dizzy to suit.


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 Post subject: Re: Could coil be culprit...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:30 pm 
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Location: brisbane
No.. That one in your pic has the conversion plate that sends the whole dizzy out to the side at 90 degrees... That is a good option but a LOT more expensive.. We chose to leave the dizzy as it was and just use a dizzy cap that puts the leads out to the side instead of out the end like most dizzy caps... Have a look at this...

https://automotivesuperstore.com.au/fue ... gK3zvD_BwE

It very crowded back there but you can get the cap off and the dizzy out if you have to...

Image

Turns out our cap was damaged when the rotor screw fell out.. New cap coming...


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 Post subject: Re: Could coil be culprit...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:30 am 
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Location: Brisbane
This is what i was thinking about. It does not look cheap. Does the new cap have the spring loaded terminal? If not what about a spring loaded rotor?

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/suzuki/ ... cs/1679418


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 Post subject: Re: Could coil be culprit...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:24 am 
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Yes we were aware of those but they are $300+ vs $75 for the 90 degree cap option..Sprung rotors don't seem to be available.


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 Post subject: Re: Could coil be culprit...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:52 pm 
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Location: Brisbane
I was thinking about putting a spring under the rotor so it always wants to push out. If you only have a few mm maybe some sort of spring washer?


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 Post subject: Re: Could coil be culprit...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:51 pm 
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The rotor is screwed to the dizzy shaft.. It has NO movement..unless the screw falls out like ours did which is what started all these problems... LOL...


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 Post subject: Re: Could coil be culprit...
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:03 am 
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Location: Brisbane
I was thinking along the lines of threadlocker on the screw which is backed off a few turns, whatever is needed to get it there with a spring/spring washer underneath the rotor on the shaft. It will need to be soft and squishy, not the usual type of spring washer. There are brass or stainless washers that are very thin and have a bent type of profile that might work. Places like repco have those little blister packs of all sorts of stuff. I will see if i can find my old dizzy to get a better idea if it will work. I have stacks of old stuff lying around here to experinent with. How much room was there between fastened rotor button and cap terminal? Can you take a photo of inside of cap? Something can probably be worked out. I don’t remember there being a screw holding the rotor button on, been a while since i last needed to touch it, possibly not a stock rotor?


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