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 Post subject: G13A build, help needed please
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:38 am 
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Location: Hungary
Hello guys,

I have a G13A 1324ccm engine from a Swift SA413. I'd like to get more power out of it for an amateur track day car. Here's my plan, please tell me what do you think about it. Emissions or fuel usage is not important, the most important thing is to make it a little rocket. I'm using the G13A because it has 0 sensors, electronics, ECU or fuel injection. Once it starts, it's running purely mechanic, no need to reprogramme it, giving bigger injectors or anything like that.

Here's the plan

-G13A block, cylinders overbored to 75mm
-oil pump from mk1 G13B GTI to make sure there's stable oil pressure all the time (not sure if it fits to the G13A block)
-D15B2 crankshaft
-4A-GE SilverTop 20V rods for oil squirters (pin hole converted from 20mm to 19mm with custom CNC-made bearings)
-high compression Honda P29 pistons
-custom made head gasket because of the 75mm pistons , 74mm stock won't fit it anymore (not sure about it's height, it might depend on how much the piston sticks out of the engine block at top dead center with the toyota rods, since they are 2mm higher than the stock 'Zuki ones)
-machined down cylinder head for higher compression ratio
-polished and ported intakes for better air flow
-bigger jets in the carb to get more fuel in the combustion chamber
-manifold from an mk1 G13B GTI because it's Y-header is bigger, 38mm inner diameter on standard 1.3 8V, 45mm on GTI
-45mm stainless steel exhaust system with 1 flow-through silencer muffler at the back
-mk1 GTI gearbox for shorter gear and diff ratios

My questions are:
-If i'm using the Honda D15B2 crankshaft, which pulley is gonna fit it? Suzuki or Honda? If the latter, how's it gonna be possible to run the timing belt on it? Also, is the belt's signal gonna be on the right place for it for further maintaince?
-What about the flywheel, does the 'Zuki flywheel fit the Honda crankshaft? If i have to use the Honda flywheel, how's the starter gonna fire up the car? Dimensions are the same?

Regards,
ikszde

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 Post subject: Re: G13A build, help needed please
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:24 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:41 am
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Location: Bunya QLD 4055
To answer those questions without addressing other issues would be wasting time. Firstly The Honda crank will require extensive work to persuade it to work. The Flywheel flange is bigger so the rear main oil seal and housing needs replacing. The flywheel is attached by eight bolts rather than six for the Suzi. Craig Wood has done some research on this subject. At the other end of the crank machining is required to adapt the oil pump (which should be G16 type for additional flow) and the timing pulley.

The d15 crank has an additional 7mm of stroke you have to fit somewhere even before you add P29s. I think you need to go back to the drawing board or ask someone to design the motor for you.

I am confused, are you setting this up so outwardly the engine looks standard? Fairly hard for you to get good performance from this carb setup with all the pollution stuff hanging off it. I believe you will get better value from a set of CV bike carbs, particularly if you raise compression.

Please tell us more about intended use and how it would look?

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 Post subject: Re: G13A build, help needed please
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:24 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:00 am
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Location: Hungary
First of all, thanks for your reply.

The plan is to build a time attack car with some buddies just for fun for the next season, starting in March. As you've pointed out, the engine should look like a standard one from the outside, "thanks" to the stupid regulations of the local series. The Suzi's category is 1201-1600ccm with Street-Amateur racer-Pro variants depending on the installed mods. If we clearly modify it (even just a Weber DCOE 40 twin-carb) they'll take the car into the Amateur-Racer category during inspection where there are serious B16 Hondas and lightened Mazda Miata/MX-5 NA and NB pushing some 200hp with LSD and sticky wide slicks, where the Swift has absolutely no chance so Street category it is. But even in their street stock form our opponents has double the power of our little machine, not to mention their advanced suspension geometry, so we'd like to get more power out of the engine while remaining full stock on the outside. All we can add on it based on the rulebook is just an airhorn to the stock carb and a cold air intake if we want. You can call it cheating but i think we just make sure that there's even a slight chance for the little Swift. It's a project with my friends to have fun on a relatively low budget, not to spend thousands of dollars for a G13B with Hayabusa ITBs and a custom MoTec etc, we just want to get some more HP out of this G13A.

To be honest i have no idea about the D15 crank conversion, none of my friends has done it before here around. All my infos i've gathered are just from the forums like TeamSwift.
-Flywheel flange: main oil seal needs to be replaced. The Honda's oem one will be good? -housing needs to be replaced: what piece is gonna be needed there? Custom-made machining?
-Oil pump: Are you sure about the G16 type? Here around lots of older G16 Swift Sedans has rod bearing issues due to low oil pressure, and the owners install G13B oil pumps most of the time.
-bigger stroke: what can we do about it? i've thought the Honda crank is more or less plug and play to the G13 block, at least that's what i've read most of the places.

To be honest i have more questions and doubts about the project at the moment than answers. :D

Is there a build thread regarding Craig Wood's project? Would love to study more about it.

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 Post subject: Re: G13A build, help needed please
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:16 pm
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Location: Perth WA
Craig is the most recent guy to have a go at this conversion, and as you’ve found many have not only attempted but completed this on Teamswift many years ago. (You’ll note these were completed on the G16 block, not G13)
When I put a D16 crank in my G16 block, I had to have it machined to relocate the thrust washer, fabricated a rear main to use the Honda type (and there’s only one specific seal that will do that job as all others are for reverse rotation) the G16 oil pump has higher volume, the failures you’ve seen would’ve been primarily due to age and sludges oil pickups more over than the oil pump choice.
If you budget to rebuild the engine, then you can pretty much double the costs if you think a Honda crank is a bolt in proposition.
The Toyota rods are 2mm longer, so unless you’re carving down the crowns of the pistons, will will find that with the pin height of those that you’ll have something in the region of 2mm protruding clear of the block..
Easiest way to get bigger stroke is to get a Suzukird forged 77mm crank, it’s an aftermarket version of the G13A crank, fully counterweighted.
As for your choice of non efi system, I work on carbys quite a lot, and you’ll find that other than wide open throttle, the carby system isn’t as efficient and will be more prone to falling out of tune, as opposed to a digitised system that compensates for certain parameters, but that’s your discretion.
Six sensor outputs are easier to play with than the numerous vac hoses, diaphragms, and mechanical linkages that go into fine tuning carbs, even more so if your running multiple carbs..
The one verbal advice I could suggest, pick a camshaft that suits your use, then build the engine/gear ratios/exhaust and fuelling to suit keeping that in the powerband, has worked well for me in the past


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 Post subject: Re: G13A build, help needed please
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:00 am
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Location: Hungary
ok guys, thanks for the advices.

-so a G16 oil pump it is
-scrap the Toyota rods, let's stick to Suzuki. Any difference between G13A and G13B rods? Both have the same height and pin diameters. G13B might be stronger?
-the stock carb is no problem to work on it for us, we'll stick to it.
-found Craig at facebook, sent a message for him about the build plan, waiting for his answer at the moment.

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 Post subject: Re: G13A build, help needed please
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:19 pm 
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talked with Craig, after his close inspection to the project, we'll stick to a G13B crankshaft with G13B rods and gonna get better valvesprings for the stock sohc head.

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