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 Post subject: rattle, rattle stop...so much for new engine... :o( ....
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 10:20 pm 
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Location: brisbane
Well less than 200klm and the new engine that we so lovingly and painstakingly fitted to my sons 92 Sierra it has now gone belly up for no apparent reason..It ran well for a few days, took it back to the seller for a tune and sort out a few issues...eg...faulty MAF and a sticking cold weather idle adjuster thing playing up and it was all good.. The next day about 3 minutes from home it rattled and stopped...It has dropped the head of one of the valve stems.. It is a clean fresh break and I know nothing about these engines so I am a bit lost as to why this happens.. It was going slow in 2nd after just taking off from a giveway sign and just driving normally...anyway... moving on .. here are some photos..

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So as you can see it probably wont buff out. The last photo shows what is left of the valve head after it pounded against the head.. All this damage occurred withing 10-15 second at low speed. Am I being optimistic that the head can be repaired without spending a fortune and that a 2nd hand piston can be swapped in ??? Or... find another cheap 2nd hand engine... In all my years of mucking around with cars and bikes, I have never actually done piston rings and bearings as I have always thought it was "secret mechanic's business" and the minutest of errors in the placement of the ring gaps or bearing installing and the entire engine would go up in flames the moment I turned on the ignition and I would end up having to go to a "workshop" and spend my money all over again because all my new parts had instantly melted the moment I turned the key... These kind of repairs have always been left to the experts. However, fortunately with proper maintanance and the reliability of our other cars, I have not had any major repairs in almost 30 years..Unfortunately with soo many cars I can not afford to pay for everyone's repairs and unfortunately for my youngest son who owns this particular Sierra already owes me more than the car is worth when it is going well...so we need to do this as economically as possible so any input on the cheapest way to get him back on the road would be greatly appreciated...We are in Brisbane north west but are happy to travel if anyone has anything that can help him out... Cheers..


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 Post subject: Re: rattle, rattle stop...so much for new engine... :o( ....
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 1:43 pm 
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Location: brisbane
Well the more I pull it apart, the more damage I find.....aaaahhhh....The bore is scratched..You can see it and you can feel/hear it when you go around the bore with your finger nail.. This is the piston that I was going to take to a friends place so he could tell me if the rings were very worn etc to gauge the condition of the rest of the engine but I don't think there is any point of driving there as I am pretty sure this piston will not share many secrets apart from the obvious ones.. I would still be happy to chuck in a 2nd hand piston with rings. The bearings look ok, but, I think I will have to do something with the bore... Your knowledgeable thoughts please.. I have never done an engine before, ever, so I am a total newbie as you can probably tell. Not sure which way to jump. I have been offered a head ( I am hoping it is ready to use and doesn't need shaving, valve grinding , guides etc) but that may or may not need $$$$$$$ spent. Waiting to hear back about it's condition. Maybe it together with a bottom end that is ok and build from there....

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Anyway I need your thoughts please...I have ground to a halt....
Could I use a single OHC block, swap in gti pistons and add the head ?????


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 Post subject: Re: rattle, rattle stop...so much for new engine... :o( ....
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 4:45 pm 
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Location: Bunya QLD 4055
Yes you can do that but get a 1324cc block as will have a longer stroke crank 77mm and give a little more torque. Has a cast crank but they will spin up to 8500 rpm easily. You will need to put the Water pump, cam belt tensioner and cam belt from GTi on. Live at Bunya now so you could bring it all over and I can put it together with Myles if you like. let me know. Even better if you can get a G16B Block.

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 Post subject: Re: rattle, rattle stop...so much for new engine... :o( ....
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 6:08 pm 
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Oh the damage one valve does.

Hopefully it has not gone too much further through the engine. Best thing would be to take up pictureshowmans offer and get his assistance.
Otherwise, drop engine, hone bore, refit new pistons and rings and go from there depending on how bad the scratch in the bore is.

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 Post subject: Re: rattle, rattle stop...so much for new engine... :o( ....
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 9:57 pm 
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I'd be surprised if there wasn't deflection in the rod too with impact damage like that. :shock: Terrible luck. :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: rattle, rattle stop...so much for new engine... :o( ....
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 10:01 pm 
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Location: brisbane
Thanks for the replies. PSM so are you saying if I get a g16b bottom end, and a gti head, they will just bolt together? The coil pack G16b we have in Myles's Sierra had to have the front of the sump cut and welded to fit a crank angle sensor.

Will that need to be done again if we used a coil pack g16b mated to a gti head / dizzy? or would we just need to use a non-coil pack g16b out of a vitara to eliminate the crank angle sensor?

Will the gti ecu fit and run everything on g16b or would we need to use a custom engine management system?

Would the injectors out of a GTi be sufficient to run a g16b if we were to build they type of engine? what else would be required to make the conversion to work besides the head and the block?

Will the gti loom even have a wire for the crank angle sensor? Not to mention the right connections for the injectors, TPS, MAF, etc etc etc... I am way out of my depth here plus Joe has been without a car now for over a month and is borrowing a car everyday to get to work and people are getting a bit over loaning him a car.. I just want this fixed and not have to worry if it is going to break like this one has.. I have a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach that there is no light at the end of the tunnel and we would be better off parting out the car and getting something that is less of a hassle.

I have had help doing the conversion and I don't want to be stretching any friendships. That extra torque would be good. I have a feeling that it would be an excellent conversion but I think it would be too expensive for my son. It would be good to have the assurance of a freshly assembled engine, but I think there would be more components required and he has already gone over his original budget and all he has to show for it is a pile of broken engine bits...

We have kindly been offered a 2nd hand GTi MK3 engine complete by a member here who bought a complete MK3 gti for spares for his race car but hasn't used any of it yet so the car is complete. It has done 227,000ks and has receipts for work done but has never had the head off. He wants $500 for it plus our old block which he will rebuild if he needs it. I think this is a generous offer however after our present dilemma I am a bit reluctant to buy another unknown engine. This particular engine can't be started because it has an immobilizer that has been fiddled with to try and get it started and that has made it even less likely to start. The last thing I want is to buy another engine and have issues with it but it is the only tangible option that doesn't require hunting around to try and find a good head and a good block that doesn't need a #$%& load of machining etc and then buying a full gasket kit etc etc. I have been trying to get my son back on the road for weeks now and I am at the end of my tether and ready to roll the Sierra off into the bush.

The plan as it stands now is to buy this engine which will be removed form the car next week end and shove it in the Sierra and hope for the best. But that sounds like a pretty desperate plan when we couldn't get the engine started today. If anyone wants to come over with me and try to suss out this engine and see if they can get it to start before it is removed, that would be great and i will be happy to pick them up and take them there.. It's at Oxley in a warehouse. I would be a LOT happier and at ease if I could here the engine running before we go to all this trouble again... Sorry for all the questions. Thank you for your time I really appreciate it.
Ken.


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 Post subject: Re: rattle, rattle stop...so much for new engine... :o( ....
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:53 am 
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If its from Steve it drove well and should be fine. That would be the cheapest option as no other mods would be required. Are you using the right angled dizzy cap? I'm only at Bunya so PM me and I will come to look at it. Lawry

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If "X" is an Unknown quantity, and a Spurt is a drip under pressure, then an "EXPERT" is an "Unknown Drip Under Pressure".
Why dont they just call it "Womenapause" instead.


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 Post subject: Re: rattle, rattle stop...so much for new engine... :o( ....
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 12:51 pm 
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Location: brisbane
Hi Lawry... Yes it's out of Steve's spare car.. Thank you soo much for you replies. I agree it is by far the most economical option. I was just a bit concerned that it wouldn't start. I suspect the immobilizer has been piggybacked onto the ecu and is stopping spark..
Yes i am using a right angle dizzy cap and a rotor from an early Mazda 323 turbo.. here is the build thread https://www.redlinegti.com/forum/viewto ... 32&t=55387 .. It was a very time consuming conversion made a little easier by the fact that I put a Baleno 1.6 efi engine into Myles's Sierra last year. Steve said he will take it out next weekend and we will go over and pick it up and drop off the old block and a few GTi bits we have here from this dead engine. After this first one went together soo well, and I actually enjoyed the challenge of adapting the cooling pipes, modifying the accelerator cable (sierra one is about 20cm short), making the gti intake and air filter mate up with the drivers side snorkel etc etc and found it quite rewarding, but, I get very uncomfortable doing "secret mechanic" stuff when it is soo easy to stuff it up and cost a new engine. I am just glad this wasn't our (my) fault.. Lawry we would love it if you were there for the firing up of this engine.. Steve want's the rebuilt dizzy so he is going to mark where it was mounted and we will use ours. He is also keeping the MAF, but I know ours is ok. Not sure about the TPS but I am guessing that will need a tweak. When we first put in the GTi engine it wouldn't idle .. The idle return screw plate had been snapped off the manifold so I made a new one which enabled us to set that up
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but the TPS was also out, one of the posts that supports a MAF sensor was bent.. Looked like someone had bumped it (not us as we had not taken it out). Also the "tubular thing" on the side of the intake manifold was not working so the ecu was thinking the engine was still cold.. The combination of these things made it very difficult to diagnose and repair. We had friends try to sort it but because there was soo many things contribution to the problem they couldn't sort it.. In desperation we drove it 60klm to the other side of Brisbane to the guy who sold us the "conversion kit" and he sorted it all out and we left his place it was running fine, idling well and for the first time it had some power.. Our plan was to take it easy for the first 500ks till it's first oil change , but 2 days later the valve cap fell off.. Wasn't even under much load or high revs...In fairness the engine had been siting under the house wrapped up in a blanket (we have mud wasps that love putting mud inside things) for 4-5 months and it was VERY rattly when it first started (the oil pressure light had gone out before it started) and the rattle took several minutes to go away but the rattle did take a day or two to go away completely. I suspect a lfter had been seized a little and this is when the valve cap lost it's integrity and it was only a matter of time before it snapped off.. This is one of the reasons why I am a bit scared of another engine that has been sitting, especially when I can't here it running.. I couldn't do this a third time..Anyway Lawry.. I will PM you and we can sort something out. It is very reasurring that you are familiar with this engine.. and Steve seems like a genuine guy who is trying to help out my son..
These car club forums are such good places to get help. it's unfortunate that with my knowledge of GTis I am not going to be much help to anyone, BUT, if you ever want to know about 2.8 ITD Delicas, or early WRXs I may be able to help...LOL.. Actually for those who tow their Gtis around to track/hillclimb meets, a Delica would be perfect because they are easily converted into a very comfortable camper, especially the LWB models) and have more than enough power to tow a GTi + parts...I have a friend who drag races his old Mercedes..He has been using his Delica for years as a tow car.. Merc does 8.99 sec 1/4mls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ5EabtNqG4

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 Post subject: Re: rattle, rattle stop...so much for new engine... :o( ....
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 10:39 am 
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Posts: 203
Location: Brisbane
I have a 92 Sierra with injected Vitara G16 and Vitara transmission conversion, if you need to look it over for set up.
Also has Vitara power steer conversion, twin alternators etc.

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 Post subject: Re: rattle, rattle stop...so much for new engine... :o( ....
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 4:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 11:48 am
Posts: 60
Location: brisbane
Thanks for the offer but we have already done the complete GTi conversion and drove it for a few days, then it fell apart...We have settled on the engine mentioned above so just waiting to get it removed from the doner car and swap sumps tec etc and it will drop straight in an all should work...


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 Post subject: Re: rattle, rattle stop...so much for new engine... :o( ....
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:44 pm 
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Who rebuilt the engine.

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 Post subject: Re: rattle, rattle stop...so much for new engine... :o( ....
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 11:48 am
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Location: brisbane
It was a 2nd hand engine that was supposedly in good condition. I must say that the price was good as we got the engine, the ecu, the extractors, the 90degree rotor cap, the 90 degree coolant outlet, the gti coil as well as a tune, and a replacement maf as the original was damaged, all for $650 . It is just disappointing that the engine only lasted a week. I suspect all the damage was caused by a seized lifter that cracked the valve stem in the first few minutes of starting it up as it was VERY rattly and took a day to quieten down but by then the damage was done and it was only a matter of time before the catastrophic end of that engine.. The seller did offer a "rebuilt" engine with a discount but it was way outside our budget. I would rather not name names. I think if he had another "known good" 2nd hand engine he would have done something to help but he had nothing to offer and, like I said, the original deal was a good one, just a shame it melted. It's hard as a parent to watch your children get slammed with disasters like this but life is like that sometimes and everyone needs to deal with stuff like this sometimes, but, it is also good when people like the folks on this site ( Steve and Lawry and others) step up to help out which is also a valuable lesson. I'm just annoyed that I have to do all the work LOL, as I have already learnt these lessons...LOL...


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 Post subject: Re: rattle, rattle stop...so much for new engine... :o( ....
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 8:27 pm 
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Posts: 60
Location: brisbane
The engine we got off Steve is coming together.. I put a new timing belt on today and painted the pulleys.. We are sandblasting the rocker cover tomorrow and it will get a coat of the same orange engine enamel...Extractors got a coat of UHT black yesterday and spent 12 hours curing sitting on top of the fireplace.. Should get installed tomorrow..

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 Post subject: Re: rattle, rattle stop...so much for new engine... :o( ....
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:41 pm 
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Posts: 60
Location: brisbane
The engine has been in and running for several days today and we are very happy with it... I painted the rocker cover from the old engine today and we will put it on tomorrow night after it has had a day to cure...

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We also modded the stock gti airbox and hoses so that it now fits the Sierras snorkel...

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One setback was the water pump started leaking very badly on the 3rd day. it is all sorted and had no issues since..


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