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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:05 am 
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Did the engine builder give you the actual measurements or just the differences? If you have the actual measurements then maybe check those against stated limits and see if they look correct.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:47 am 
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Thinking about it, I'm guessing the machinist gave you the difference as he will have zeroed the bore gauge using the outside micrometer so that he's effectively measuring with the same piece of equipment.

Where's the bearing measurement come from? Is seems a little on the large side.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:12 am 
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here it is sam.

from the machinist/engine builder....i have a nasty habit and I'm very adept at scribbling over everything...excuse that...his numbers are in the black boxes...on the second sheet is those inch measurements converted to the nth degree into mm....so i could directly relate to the king website and the exact racing bearings they got in...the MB5731XP tri metal bearings....max wall thickness 1.999mm.

using his measurements...you can see them all....I got the gap...mostly 4.0259mm. doubled the max wall thickness of 1.999....took it off the gap measurement...turned it into thousandths of an inch and there you have it...should be basically about 1 thou....yet a bearing...(off the NDC page shows the NDC bearings we tried at 2.006mm wall thickness...confirmed by measuring at 2.005mm) and after fitting...2.75 thou on the largest one and today I got told the others were around 2.25...he can massage the larger one...which may be because its at the flywheel end and he said often those bearings see a little more load etc.

I have info that I should be shooting for 2 thou.

The machinist is going to digest the stuff I have given him and check measurements...unfortunately...and I get this...he said you can measure till your blue in the face and sometimes when you fit stuff and torque it up...you don't get the clearance you were thinking....but even he says its hard to believe on the measurements we have of everything that we are getting such a large clearance. 8-[

I am resigned to the fact that i may have to accept 2.25 thou....he does not believe it is my oil pressure issue. either that or its grind the crank....pity when its in such great condition and super round and on spec....plus its been balanced....

now just waiting to hear from him...see if there has been a stuff up....I doubt the measurements are wrong....jees these guys do this all day every day. but on paper...the math doesn't add up....
in piloting terms that always means you have screwed up somewhere or not thought about something........ 8-[


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:14 am 
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Location: NZ
and yes...Im the worlds worst nightmare customer.... :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:45 pm 
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Working out the clearances based on ACL's data you'd have clearances between .0019 and .0022 but their crown measurement is bit less than NDC. Those numbers sound about right.

The crank seems good with all journals even and close to max size. The #5 tunnel is slightly out of spec but I guess that's ok.

I guess they'll plastigauge each journal to check the clearance. You wonder whether measuring with different tools is part of the issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:54 pm 
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I just don't know Sam. The data on the king bearings is probably much like the ACL race bearings.
I'll wait to see what the engine builder says. Yes 5 is a bit larger but the cap can be wiped over as it's only .0005 too big and yes that means an oval tunnel but it seems like normal practice as the main pressure is on the crown of the bearings and not the sides.

Yes I really don't want to grind that crank! It's knife edged and balanced already. Polished and set to go. Balls removed and crank cleaned out....grub screws installed. (I bought it already knife edged)

I have got a different cooler....and AN 10 lines....plus I'll be using the accusump before we race it.
Until then we will keep it simple to run it in.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:40 am 
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Location: NZ
Guys I have ordered the graded bearings from suzuki.

Let's see how they measure up. Will probably be too tight!
Plus I had a moment of weakness and ordered a genuine G13B oil pump.

Why you ask. Well....the genuine G13b pump was always adequate for the dohc engine. It is a smaller rotor but wider....it's designed for the G13b. We are going to shim it 1 mm in the relief valve to raise the pressure to account for slightly looser bearing clearances. The last pump was a G16A pump....it was aftermarket....the crank made marks on the rotor like it was pushing the rotor into the housing. So I'm going original...genuine....what it was designed for. If it doesn't make the pressure....something else is wrong.
So I'll keep the genuine g16 pump for the spare motor I have or sell it.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:27 pm 
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Location: Australia WA
A suggestion is to check with you bearing supplier for under sized shells or unfinished shells that can be line bored, then you bang on the money for tolerances.
As a sanity check, once eng assembled on stand sump & rocker cover off, drip tray under it. Plumb in an electric oil pump or H/F 12v fuel pump and pressurize motor with oil into main gallery checking flow from all journals etc. Easy to spot the difference between journals if something not quite right.

This time don't dick with the oil sandwich plate hoses etc :oops: and let you son drive it first :)

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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:19 pm 
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Haha GTI Cappo.

Lol on the last comment. Promise the cooler and sandwich plate goes no where near the engine at the start. It will have a dog box soon...so we both have to get used to that!

The bearing issue is doing my head in


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:55 pm 
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Working on the electric power steer today. Going to dial more castor in...harder to steer so needs a bit of assist. It's heavy though....I think by the time it's done it will be 8kg. I guess hyd power steer might be heavier. I'll have to find some stuff to take out! Maybe a lightweight battery....I'll save 6kg right there I think.
I mocked it up today...the assist works well. We will only use a small amount of assist...just enough to help but ensure feel. And return to centre.
It's the Bruno box...Saturn Vue EPAS unit. I have seen the ones that can operate in failsafe...but I want selectable assist....you can turn it off....have full assist in the pits....and anywhere in between on the track.
6 laps ok...boy finds it heavy...my shoulders hurt the next day....yeah I know....hit the gym... 8-[


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:50 pm 
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Location: NZ
feels like I'm talking to myself lately... 8-[

This EPAS is a big job...got to modify the pedal box to fit...and the pedal box is WEAK! so Im strengthening it to take the power steer forces. Getting it to fit is not easy...it would be better to remove the stock steering bracket entirely and put a tubular system on to make more room...but thats too much for this time....


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:43 am 
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Sounds like it's getting complicated.

I'm running a PS rack with a Citroen electric pump. The pump is a fairly weighty item but probably not 8kg. It works well enough and does have the benefit of stronger rack ends/tie rods.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:17 pm 
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no its not too complicated...just time consuming...but I have nearly got it sorted sam.
fitting a full PS rack and power steering pump sounds a looks more complicated to be honest...plus it robs power!!...I should have it installed in one more day..the done work is done.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:11 pm 
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Not really, it's easy to find a genuine PS rack so it's simple to fit. The electric pump only robs power indirectly by placing a bit more load on the alternator. There's no doubt it adds weight but so does all that muscle mass required if you don't have it.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:55 pm 
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I'd say both methods have about the same weight....a power steering pump...plus lines...fluid...a heavier PS rack etc....or the reasonably heavy electric power steer....what I like about the power steer is the selectable level of assist....ramp it up in the pits and turn it down on the track. It's Armstrong power steering without the assist on....and featherweight one finger stuff at full assist...I imagine we will be somewhere around 25% assist. Lots of work but I think will be well worth it in the end


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:59 am 
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i have an issue with the kalamar/sqs dog kit...its just too godamn nice to put in the box...it needs to be in a display case...like jewellery. a very complete kit... :D...unwrapping this...better than sex... :oops:

does anyone make a perspex gearbox case...lol 8-[


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:48 pm 
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Very nice. Seems like it must have been pretty quick as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:28 pm 
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yes they are top quality...seems to ooze it...guess I better be careful putting it together...nice new quality bearings...guess I will still have some pitfalls of the small frame box but track work only...124 hp ATW it should be fine.

got a bunch done on the power steering today..pics to follow soon...very happy with the way its turning out...lots of work...but Im 3/4 the way there.

japanese bearings are in the country so i hope they work with the bottom end of the motor...

I have two argentina trips and one los angeles trip this month so not a lot of time to work on the car and the other half wants me to do s**t around the house... :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:08 pm 
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power steering pics. Its attached to the pedal box...which I have strengthened a bit.
new gear stick bit long I think...might shorten it a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:56 pm 
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swift12 wrote:
i have an issue with the kalamar/sqs dog kit...its just too godamn nice to put in the box...it needs to be in a display case...like jewellery. a very complete kit... :D...unwrapping this...better than sex... :oops:

does anyone make a perspex gearbox case...lol 8-[
Boing!

You have my complete attention...

:lol:

Cheers,

Drew

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