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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:00 am
Posts: 1612
Location: Londoninium
Nooooooo.
Sorry to hear.
Not had much luck. Take some time...then come back and report, well offer a shoulder to cry on.
And plenty of advice. K20 time
GTP


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:54 am 
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Posts: 955
Location: NZ
I’ll tell you what’s wrong with it....it cannot live at 6000 to 8500 rpm for 10 minutes without dying within an hour. Even with professionals building it, great oil pressure and perfect water temperate plus all the sensors under the sun which all showed perfect operation till it stopped.

I’m starting my boat now....I’m covering the swift and forgetting it for the foreseeable future. Three times bitten I would not rebuild that motor if I was paid too. The builders want to strip it to find out what’s wrong....if they want to do that for free they can.

Otherwise it annoys me the rest of the package is going great. The boy had the fastest lap times in the wet....the car sounded sweet....no warning....just s**t itself after a corner....and no....no oil surge....the ecu said perfect running...not even a check engine light.

This motor cannot handle it.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:46 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:38 am
Posts: 442
Location: Cust NZ
So what do you reckon failed? I'm guessing you haven't pulled it apart but you must have a fair idea of what broke?


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:30 am
Posts: 471
Location: Napier
Give it to the builders to strip for free to find out what happened. Some valuable information there, then leave it in parts for another day.

Surprising that some will do 300+hp all day long and others won't....

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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:04 pm 
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Location: Bunya QLD 4055
Were you running a datalogger? Lots of info can be had with these.

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Why dont they just call it "Womenapause" instead.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:40 am
Posts: 955
Location: NZ
Sam...something hit the plug...it wont turn over a full revolution. the camshafts are not broken. the piston crown is not white but the plug is.

Michael...for another day?...not likely...if it wont stay together after three engine builds it wont stay together after 4

picture....yes its a link extreme...I have data to the moon. engine .....ok...ok....ok....ok....ok...bang. no hints of anything....only thing was it went super rich....Chris said that would be because that cylinder stopped burning fuel....that was immediately before going bang. oil pressure normal...water temp normal...oil temp normal....Lambda slightly rich by 5% the whole day....no overspeeds.....no trigger errors....IAT normal...


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:30 am
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Location: Napier
Just gonna throw it out there, broken valve.

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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 878
Location: Brisbane
That's is very sad news


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:58 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:11 am
Posts: 76
Location: Trinidad
Don't get discouraged man, dismantle and see what the cause of catastrophe was. Mine is 130whp and seems to be doing well, fingers crossed.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:45 am 
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Location: NZ
Nope I’m done. 3 rebuilds and three broken motors....146 wheel horse power....are you running a dog box? I believe it’s the revs it cannot handle. It lives at 6000 rpm plus for 10 minutes.....either that or I’m just unlucky but I’m not doing a 4th engine in less than 10 outings.
The only way that car will see the track again is with a Honda or a Hayabusa.
Or I’ll break it up and sell off the parts.
It would have been nice to see impending doom coming so I could have stopped and saved it but nothing....so I’d be nuts to go again.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:08 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:38 am
Posts: 442
Location: Cust NZ
It does sound like a broken valve or valve spring. A quick look under the cam cover would probably answer the question. If I remember correctly you had to machine the pistons so I guess it's possible that part of the piston has come off bending a valve. The postmortem might be helpful to the rest of us in terms of things to watch out for.

I guess like ng357, my experiences with G13B's have been a lot more positive. The issues I've had with these and 4AGE's have largely been self inflicted where I've tried something that hasn't proved to be a winning idea ( like removing too much from a flywheel rather than buying a billet one ).

I've often thought about using a Hayabusa but the conclusion I reached is that unless the car is 500kg or less you'll just end up with a series of transmission failures. A K20 should be reliable and doesn't need to be highly modified to provide good performance but what's the Swift adding that can't be achieved running a Civic?


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:34 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:11 am
Posts: 76
Location: Trinidad
I do run a close ratio box as well, but I understand what your saying.
If your selling off, I may be interested in the head. How ever I do encourage to do some investigation. These engines do have some age and it can be even a broken cam.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:39 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:40 am
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Location: NZ
its not a broken cam...I have looked at that already.
The engine is going to the builder on Monday. They will look at it for me for no charge to determine what happened.
either way I don't want to rebuild that motor....its cursed.

If I decide to sell off Ill have a dog box for sale which I will dismantle and check over...get the washers done in the LSD and put back together.
I have another good gearbox with standard GTI ratios. I have a head already to go. I have a set of std cultus solid cams. I have three tech cams Im running in the blown motor. I have another good block plus the one in the donor car and also the head in the donor car.

I might be able to make enough money to go the busa route selling off all the suzuki stuff. many kit cars around the 650 kg mark run them successfully in the UK. Honestly putting another 5k into this engine is pointless....Many of you have no issues but obviously this particular motor has issues.

I dont want a honda. Everyone runs civics....the suzuki was unique around the track.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:29 am 
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Posts: 128
Location: planet earth
Sorry if this doesnt sound nice, but the problem isnt in those revs, but probably in the engine builders you are choosing, not saying they are bad because mistakes happen to everyone, either that or you are the unluckiest guy around

I know a couple of gti racing in europe, that keep being trashed hard, with 9000rpm some even more that have 0 issues in years
Years ago there was an endurance with a +150hp swift for 4h, and it finished the race with a broken alternator..


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:13 pm 
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Posts: 442
Location: Cust NZ
A Busa engine would certainly be an interesting project but I'm not convinced it would be reliable or cheap. I suspect a lot would depend on how it's done and how much money you want to throw at it.

If you go to the extreme that some of the UK kit car manufacturers go with Quaife straight cut gears and cushion drive transfer units then I guess it might last ok. If you go with a basic chain driven reverser/transfer unit then I suspect with a 650kg car you'd need a good supply of spare Busa engines.

I guess it doesn't need to be a one way conversion. If you made a cradle to take the Busa engine and transfer unit then I guess it could be mounted using the existing engine mount locations. If you got a complete donor bike you could probably reuse the extractor, air box and ecu as well. They're easily chipped so that's probably all you need ecu wise. That leaves driveshafts and connecting up fuel, wiring etc. You'd probably want the 1340cc G2 engine as the gearbox output shaft is stronger. The B King has the same engine as the Busa but is chipped differently. They're often cheaper than a Busa.

That's about as far as I got working through the options. At a guess if you purchased a low km used B King and used a cushion drive transfer unit then you'd have to end up spending $20k. You might be able to halve that with a chain drive setup but you wouldn't need too many failures for it to work out more expensive. It's probably cheaper to do a rwd setup in something like a Starlet.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:01 pm
Posts: 114
Location: Australia WA
To be at the pointy end on track with small NA engines you need spend big, you've proved that already :oops: :oops:
Check cause of failure yourself or be present during strip down, no business likes giving money away on a rebuild.
Pretty much standard G13B, low boost turbo, rpm clamped at 7500 and you would still be racing having fun :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:40 am
Posts: 955
Location: NZ
thanks everyone.

Im not stripping it or being present. Im dumping the motor and leaving. Personally i think its absolute toast so no point in rebuilding it ay. just be here again in another two track days.

I have the white cars engine...but it needs rebuilding as it has a low pot so its more than likely oval.
considered just freshening it myself to stock and chucking it on the dog box...


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:01 pm
Posts: 114
Location: Australia WA
Look on the bright side, you wont need to buy best looking anchor for your boat project :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:38 am
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Location: Cust NZ
It'll be interesting to what's failed and whether it's related to the oil pressure issues.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:40 am
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Location: NZ
it looks like detonation in cylinders 2 and 3 to me....3 not so bad....1 and 4 no worries....three plugs together the middle one is no.3 and the one i'm holding is the no.2....no lambda issues...ran fine all day right up until death...so makes you wonder if for some reason no 2 and 3 were lean and the other ones ok...funny thing is the piston tops are all light golden brown colour....from what i can see down the spark plug hole. I sat on my workshop chair and the one plastic wheel that is buckled nearly tipped me on the concrete floor....so i took my frustrations out on it and gave it a damn good thrashing.....Nick beat it back into shape with a hammer today and now it has no wheels....so I can still sit on it and look at the car. :?

and what to do with your race trailer when you have no race car.


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