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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:21 am 
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You won't get much flex in dynapro's with a car this size and weight, with dynalites you might get some. AP's would be great though, it's just the price.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:11 am 
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I am leaning towards looking at the dynopros using swift sport discs and re drilling for 4 x 114.3.
I can mill up a caliber brakes as required.

To save re inventing the wheel anyone done this setup and have info?

I think anything will be better than the 250mm discs I have. They are znoelli slotted and cryo treated so good quality just too small a pad area plus the m15 callipers I have sit the discs a little wide of the disc itself so losing pad contact right there. The slotted discs seems to kill pads other than hard racing ones but at 146 hp in summer racing and late stops from say 170 kmph nothing except the endless pads seem to last long but too long to "come on" and even then.....they suck...

I have been in a rally car with an acquaintance and he hit a corner at a speed I thought we were not going to make it around...the brakes were devastatingly brutal....so I know what a good feeling brake versus a crap one feels like. It probably had 5k worth of brakes on it though!!!...lol.

Im not after that....just better than what we have....

guys are the sport discs 280mm?.....anyone know what the sport pads look like?....Id like to know if I have sport callipers or just plane jane M15 calipers....or are they the same? ....mine have TOKICO on them. they are a 52mm piston. one side with sliding caliper.

I thought I was getting sport calipers when I bought them from aussie but now Im not sure.

Sorry if I sound rather dumb about all this with what we have done to the car so far but I have not spent a lot of time thinking brakes....thought sport calipers with zneolli slotted discs and endless pads were the go.....obviously not.... [-X


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:28 am 
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Sports are 278mm. I thought M15 and M16 calipers were same.

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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:39 am 
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So sport discs are 276x18. Would you run the sport hub as well? It might work but you'd want to check the effect on the driveshaft. I'm guessing it'll need to be 6-7mm longer. You might also need the M16/Sport upright.

If you stick with the GTi hub and just run the sport rotor then I'm guessing you'll need to space the rotor out. Not sure I'd go there. The limiting factor will be getting the rotor to clear the caliper mounting bolts. You'd want to measure it out before buying anything but I suspect you'd need a spacer behind the rotor even to clear low profile cap screws. Obviously the more you space the rotor out the less likely it is that your wheels will clear the caliper. If you use two piece rotors then at least you can turn a universal hat down to the minimum required to clear the mounting bolts safely. You could also run a larger disc I suspect.

If you go with the M16/Sport setup then I suspect it's likely you'll need to change the upright as well as re-drilling the disc and hub. That would force you to redo your LCA's for the bigger ball joint and to correct the driveshaft length.

I think you need to do your best to work in out on paper before buying anything.

There's at least two versions of new swift caliper with different pads but I'm not sure whether the sport caliper is any different.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:24 pm 
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Location: NZ
cheers guys.

I won't be changing to m16 uprights. I won't be using the m16 hub. I won't be changing driveshafts for now.
Ill try the m16 disc and space it out in necessary....my znoellis are spaced by 8mm already and it works fine. I could even try my calipers on the larger disc and see how I go.

I know someone doing the m16 sport disc so Ill ask how that is being done....I believe fitted to a gti upright. Thanks for the size of the disc....If I can make it work it might be a little better than what we have now.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:24 pm 
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I reckon you'll end up spacing out the disc and then having to space the wheel as well to get a 4 pot to clear the wheel. Not ideal from a safety point of view.

I wouldn't have thought you'd be saving much buying quality sport discs over Wilwood discs and universal hats. If it was me I'd eliminate or at least minimise the spacers required. I guess you need to measure it out but I reckon you'd have a good chance of not requiring spacers if you use the narrow dynapro calipers and hats.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:15 am 
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Location: Cust NZ
On a different subject I see NPD are now selling 100+ unleaded. Should be ideal for those wanting to run Lambda sensors. Quality might no be as consistent as Avgas but at least there's no lead.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:01 am 
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I have a set of calipers from an m15, but in europe they are made by TRW, and these calipers are the same as the sport, i do believe that even the 1.3ddis diesel version use the same calipers

With these calipers the pad covers the rotor completely, all the pad sits on the rotor, maybe the tokico ones are different

A picture of the pad and caliper

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:15 am 
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From a quick search i found these, top are the ones i use in the trw caliper, bottom are the tokico ones
The main difference is that the trw covers the whole 250 disc
Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:33 pm 
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Location: NZ
yes cheers thats the pad I have the bottom one.

running a 250mm disc now and i measured it tonight you would not get more than 5mm extra before hitting the caliber so 260mm would be it. a 276mm sport disc wont first unless caliper mounting adjustments are made.

I think i could fit a 280mm disc...but that about it.....I might try get a sports one....see if I can find a good set of callipers to go with it and adjust the mount on the upright???


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:55 am 
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Location: Washington State
If you flip your caliper mount bracket to the inside of the hub brake tabs you should be able to get 300 mm on 15" wheels. This will pull the caliper in about 1/2" to 3/4". In order to make that work then you would need a greater off set hat:

https://www.wilwood.com/Hats/HatProd?itemno=171-8976

This one would require milling the inside and drilling what ever stud holes your running. I don't know what the sport hub clearance are though, but I would imagine there is room to move in. You could then run something like this if you don't want slotted rotors:

https://www.wilwood.com/Rotors/RotorPro ... 20&appid=0

Of course all this requires making the right mounting bracket and choosing the right calipers. Most wheels veer out so as you go in the total clearance diameter goes up. Moving my Wilwood setup to the inside and I probably can fit these calipers (it would need to clear 13.62" with the 11.75 (298mm) rotors):

https://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/Calipe ... 20&appid=0

These are a 7.3 inches square pad area with 5 racing pads to choose from. They are heavier and more expensive but they also have a larger piston area then the largest 4 piston dynapro just by a little bit. Doing something like this would require balancing out the rear. I just thought I would share.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:34 pm 
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Location: NZ
share away thats great!

I cannot view wilwood.com for some reason...my iMac wants to share some apple ID. Ill have to try on my iPad....dunno whats going on there


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:38 am
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6 piston calipers would be very cool but unlikely to work well without a pedal box. 4 piston Dynapro, on the other hand, will work fine with the standard mc. When comparing piston areas for a 4 pot it's the area for one side of the caliper ie two pistons compared to the area of the single piston in the new swift caliper.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:12 am 
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Location: Brisbane
Its critical you get the caliper piston size right

Dave had some 4 piston calipers built. They fitted larger pistons than they should have & the brakes were useless. With the correct sized piston great brakes


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:05 am 
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Location: Washington State
JasStv wrote:
Its critical you get the caliper piston size right

Dave had some 4 piston calipers built. They fitted larger pistons than they should have & the brakes were useless. With the correct sized piston great brakes



The piston area difference between the largest dynapro 4 pot and the largest piston 6 pot dynapro (the one linked above) is .26 inches squared (this is relatively nothing). The pad selection is roughly the same, but the pad area is 6.36 in2 vs 7.3 in2. The problems would be cost, weight, and clearance on a 11.75" disc. They will clear a 16" wheel, but it will be close on a 15". Fitting a smaller 11" disc is problematic since they don't make a 6x 6.25 at a deep enough offset. Honestly, the dynapro four piston radial mount is the one I went with because of the weight, the price, and the clearance difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:24 pm 
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Location: NZ
Thanks Guys. I’ll work on the car soon. Got a race meet coming up with a few things to rectify on the car.
In Los Angeles currently on a route check so mind a bit preoccupied. New lambda sensor coming....why...last one crapped itself. Note to others....don’t do what innovate says....wire so the lambda sensor does not heat up or start working until the car engine temp is plus 40 degrees c. Why?....the condensation hitting a warming sensor kills it fast. 40 degrees ensures condensation is gone before the sensor starts heating up. Got to wire the an aux wire to the innovate lambda relay and get Chris to sort it Turning on based on the WTS sensor. My trouble was turning the car on and off without starting the engine....then when I finally started it the sensor gets a full whack of water on it while it’s hot....breaks the ceramic....fast.
Neg camber on the rear SUCKS in the rain.....that is mostly coming out....went over 2.5 neg degrees when we lowered the car.
Ordered a Bosch 155 lph pump to rectify the surge tank setup.
Will filter the dog box oil.
That’s the list for the weekend.
To come....get rid of the awful hyd lifters.
Improve those brakes.


Over 205000 views on my build topic. Crikey. Hope my mistakes and successes have helped others.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:29 pm 
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Posts: 1612
Location: Londoninium
Sam7 wrote:
You won't get much flex in dynapro's with a car this size and weight, with dynalites you might get some. AP's would be great though, it's just the price.


I get visible distortion and hinge action on my dynapro 4 piston calipers while bleeding them.
Doesn't translate to much on the road or track as they are still superior to standard. I'm getting minor axial tapering on the pads.
The Centerline of the pistons is lower than the Centerline of the through bolts effectively making them a hinge. My AP calipers on the other car have the inner through bolts of 3 each end inside the piston radial Centerline. But they cost 4 times the willwoods
GTP


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:40 am
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Location: NZ
Thanks guys...killed the znoelli SP500 pads today....went back to the endless pads...so far the only pads that will hold up...just need to be hot to work.
The sp500 pads were white and just stopped working.

Nick is driving the car tomorrow.....we had it professionally wheel aligned..... 8-[ FFS!
I was wondering why it was so s**t....really awful in the ass.

well....would 10mm toe in on the left rear and 7mm toe out on the right rear do it? your god damn right it would. so 3mm toe in on the rear and the car crabbing plus the front wheel sitting 10 degrees to the right....FFS!
so home....manually set all four wheels camber using levels....fronts ok...rear terrible....now the fronts are 2.5 degrees neg and the rear 1.5 neg.
then set about setting up string lines painful and slow...but slowly we honed in on 1.1mm total toe out on the rear with both wheels almost the same...
the fronts 2.8mm toe out total....the steering wheel straight ahead....
lets see how tomorrow goes.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:48 pm 
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Posts: 955
Location: NZ
Engine is fucked. I’m done. I hate the g13b.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:01 pm
Posts: 114
Location: Australia WA
Whats gone wrong with it and how bad? :cry:

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