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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:14 pm 
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I guess time will tell whether he's correct. Not sure I'd agree. For big ends yes but not the mains. I'd be modifying the oiling in the crank if I wanted it to live at 8k for any length of time.

The M16 uprights are bigger, different hub, 5 stud etc. My understanding is that the driveshaft will work as for M15. So in theory you could run M16 uprights and hubs with M16 brakes. Haven't seen it to confirm but I'm pretty sure that's what Steve was intending to do with his K20 conversion. Means new wheels or re-drilling hubs. Alternately you make a bracket to mount Wilwood calipers on your existing M15 uprights.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:27 pm 
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Location: Napier
Mmmmm dual caliper setup?? :lol:

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A Kiwi learning to fly in a Mk1.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:07 pm 
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Location: NZ
hi sam where i'm at is not spending more on the motor while its showing good pressure and performance...honestly..it either goes bang or it doesn't. :? plus the mains are still well within spec as far as the manual goes.
Im into boat building mode so id like to get the car to a point we can just go drive it. Brakes are probably the main thing to look at....then see if it stands the test of time and punishment.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:54 pm 
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Location: Brisbane
Attachment:
IMG_3237.jpg
IMG_3237.jpg [ 831.86 KiB | Viewed 105 times ]
This is the front brake setup we are running on our GTi

Honda Integra DC5 calipers & Honda S2000 ( 1999) 300mm DBA 4000 discs

Discs will be redrilled 4 x 114.3

We have 2mm clearance between caliper & inside of wheel

We are using 2010 Suzuki Sport uprights which push the calliper further out than the standard late model Suzuki uprights to allow us to fit 300mm discs


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:11 pm 
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Location: NZ
Thanks for that Steve. They look great....what’s the standard drilling’s on those hubs?


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:18 pm 
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Location: Trinidad
Wish I knew this info before, just bought myself the M15 uprights.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:30 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 878
Location: Brisbane
The Honda S 2000 has 5x114.3 standard

The Suzuki sport also has 5 x 114.3 which gives you the option of changing wheels to 5 x 114.3 which saves changing hubs & redrilling discs

The Suzuki sport has the same spline count as the GTi driveshaft which also means you can use the Mitsubishi Magna outer CV which is stronger than the GTi

If you want to use the sport upright with the GTi hub you can change the wheel bearing to a Renault which has the same outer diam as the sport upright & the same inner diam as the Gti.
You will have to fit a 1mm shim inside upright as the Renault bearing is 1mm shorter
I think you could use a bearing retainer circlip for this shim.

One issue using the GTi hub in the Sport upright is it is shorter than the Sport hub & doesn't project into the bearing as far

There is also one other item to check That is the camber using the Sport upright. I am going to set the camber at 2 degs by changing the length of the lower control arms. I would do a test fit if you plan to stay with standard length lower controls arms & GTi driveshafts

Lots of things to check


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:44 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:38 am
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Location: Cust NZ
So many options. I guess you'll need to decide where to draw the line. Steve's setup looks good but might be overkill for a G13B powered car. A Wilwood kit would be around $800 nzd with the only other item needed being the mounting brackets. A Honda Civic kit might well work.

I guess M16/Sport brakes would be another budget option but I guess you'd need to redo your LCA's for the larger ball joint.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:40 am
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Location: NZ
thanks guys for the replies. some great info there.

hey so the sport uprights are different to the m13 and m15 uprights? I didn't know that.

will sport discs fit on the m15 upright with the GTI hub if i re drill them?

so I have the m15 upright....with the GTI hub....with the suzuki bearing that fits the m15 upright and the gti hub. I have modified my LCA's out and forward to compensate for the difference as the driveshaft length would be too long. I only used the GTI hubs as I picked up Volks TE 37's and im not changing those...so im stuck with 4 x 114.3. otherwise id have to change the rear hubs too as i won't be running different wheels front to rear. I have the 52mm late swift calipers and not the gti ones. I have znoelli pads but we are scorching those...only ones we haven't killed is the endless MX72 pads but they suck until their hot. my current discs are 250mm i believe.
i just read your post again Steve and I see why the changes are necessary...if i can stick with the m15 uprights and GTI hub...but find a disc and caliper i can mod onto the car to increase pad contact id love to try that.

so my options are limited to 4 x 114.3 but im happy to redrill discs. I can mill out new brackets and I have some quality alloy here and a mill to do it.
Sam what parts are the willwood setup?
I could get from the states on a trip....


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:11 am
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Location: Trinidad
Try GLOC pads, they are great stuff. R10 compound should be good for your application. Trust me, a good pad makes a big difference even when comparing to other 'good' pads


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:52 am 
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Location: NZ
I looked up g-loc last time you mentioned them but can’t come up with a part number and their website won’t work for me. Plenty of miata and bmw pads on line....any ideas?


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:36 pm 
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The size of my calipers is a probably a little bit irrelevant as my setup is made to go under 14" wheels. You can and should go bigger. I'll take a look for a part # tomorrow as I guess it'll give you an idea of piston size. My work fine with a standard mc and a proportioning valve.

It's probably not a bad option to stick with your current M15 uprights and lca's with 4 pot racing calipers. Using the info on the Wilwood site, work out what calipers and rotors will work for your wheels. Buy hats to suit or blanks and drill them and make your brackets with the mill, job done. It'll also allow you to get rid of the spacer behind the rotor.

If you were starting from zero then the M16/sport upright would be worth looking at. I'm guessing the fact that Steve is mounting Honda calipers probably means that you'd be able to buy off the shelf brackets for 4 pot racing calipers or even just run the Honda calipers like Steve. To go down that path now probably doesn't save anything by the time you buy M16/Sport uprights, modify a set of LCA's to take the bigger ball joint, replace the bearings, re-drill the hubs, buy used calipers, re-kit and new pads, buy rotors and re-drill. You'd also need to be careful of what it might mean for your driveshaft length.

If you're planning to redo your LCA's anyway then I guess that would change things as you'll incur some of those costs regardless. Decision time as they say.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:55 pm 
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Location: NZ
Hi Sam thanks for the ideas...I looked at the wilwood site....doing hats, discs and 4 pot forged plus pads is the best part of $1700 nz.....ouch.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:11 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:00 am
Posts: 1625
Location: Londoninium
I did willwoods conversion for the equivalent of a new Suzuki caliper.
I use rover 800 disks (285mm) willwoods caliper and had the brackets machined to my design out if 15 pounds worth of good grade aluminium, from rallydesign.uk. almost most expensive parts were the braided lines parts.
GTP


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:48 am 
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Location: NZ
How does it stop GTP?


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:55 am 
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That sounds expensive, you must be getting a bit carried away.

Annoyingly I can't find any part number on my calipers. They look like dynapro radial mount but that could mean a piston size anywhere from 1.25" to 1.75". You'd assume they'd be 1.25. You'd expect those to be around $250-$300nzd. You'd expect the rotors to be about $120nzd and universal bells somewhere around $100.

I recently bought a front kit for my ae86 and that was $930nzd and that included calipers, rotors, brackets, pads and hoses so everything ready to bolt on.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:15 am 
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That sounds expensive, you must be getting a bit carried away.


Thats my MOJO!

yes but id like not too.

who was your supplier?
were they wilwood discs sam?


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:02 pm 
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The 86 kit came from Grp4 Fabrications. They're great for historic rally parts but not much help for Suzuki.

If you're flying to the UK then RallyDesign or DT would have everything you need.

Dynalite will be cheapest but Dynapro would be better. Something like this should be pretty close:
https://www.demon-tweeks.com/nz/wilwood-dynapro-4-piston-brake-caliper-radial-mount-594008/. Work out what will fit in your wheels first. From memory Wilwood have fitment sheets on their web site that show you the clearances required. I found the TE37's wouldn't work with the Dynapro's on my car but the offset of mine might be different to yours. The Dynapro 4 pots are quite a flat wide design so the wheels need plenty of caliper clearance. I think Wilwood now make a narrower version as well and that might be easier to fit. Having the GTi hub in the M15 upright probably doesn't help. You don't want to have to end up running spacers to get the wheels to clear the caliper and I suspect that will be a possibility with the TE37's. This is where you see the difference between race wheels and street wheels. I can't run TE37's +45( without an amount of spacing that I didn't bother to work out), my Advan's +45 require 7mm and Compomotive +38 require no spacing.


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 878
Location: Brisbane
When Dave Homer made up his kit using the late model M15 uprights he had an aluminium calliper bracket machined up that offset the caliper to use a larger Sport disc which he redrilled to 4 x114.3

He replaced the GTi ball joint with a later model ball joint with the 16mm pin


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 Post subject: Re: Our little cultus racer
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:00 am
Posts: 1625
Location: Londoninium
The willwoods were a great upgrade over the decent pads I had in GTi calipers on the AWD. With 102hp at all 4 wheels I never experienced fade at the track during full 15 minute sessions.
Was out braking many a car, though a lot of them were going a lot faster and having to brake earlier.
The willwoods are a good budget solution but inherent in their design, dynapro I seem to remember, is a significant amount of flex or caliper distortion is visible during bleeding. My AP 5300 series calipers on the escort have zero similar movement but we're not a budget solution.
I'd upload images but it's too hard on the phone. Have a look at my AWD GTi thread if you want.
GTP


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