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 Post subject: 2002 swift GLS mk 1 GTi conversion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:18 pm
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Location: Shropshire
Hello, I've had my g10a swift for over a year an I love it but I'm getting bored of how slow it is, so it's time for twincam!
I managed to get my hands on a road rallied mk 1 Suzuki swift GTi, the car was in a very bad state so I stripped it down completely.
I will be using the bottom end of a g13ba sohc engine to put all GTi parts on!
I WILL be upgrading from the hollow cams as have heard nothing but bad about them, any suggestions as I can see a few places like Piper only reprofile them?
I have the loom and ECU from the mk 1, have mk 2 gearbox and shafts, which I need to get front GTi hubs so the shafts will fit.
Can anyone tell me what problems I may face?
Wiring is my main concern with this conversion..

Any help will be greatly appreciated!!


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 Post subject: Re: 2002 swift GLS mk 1 GTi conversion
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:30 pm 
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Location: Napier
Why not just swap the entire GTi engine into the car?
Nothing wrong with the hollow cams, they match the engine fine. Only if you chase big power upgrades do they need replacing with BD10s or BD14s etc. Plenty of info on here around power upgrades for the g13b.

Any front hubs off a Mk2 series will be fine to match your gearbox and shafts.

If wiring is a concern, coerce a friend who is good at it to do it for you, otherwise it is a case of wire by wire to match it up.
Good luck, I'll be following with interest!

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 Post subject: Re: 2002 swift GLS mk 1 GTi conversion
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:45 pm 
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Location: Shropshire
That's what I am doing, I am rebuilding the engine first.
I am looking for around 160-180bhp N/A so cams will need to be replaced!
I have just bought a pair of mk 2 hubs so that's one thing off the list.
As for wiring i will give that a look at when it comes to it


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 Post subject: Re: 2002 swift GLS mk 1 GTi conversion
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:46 pm 
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Location: Bunya QLD 4055
That HP will only be available at the flywheel as you would need a ton of money to make that at the wheels. Also needed will be an aftermarket ECU and a special fuel to prevent detonation at the compression ratio required for that HP.

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If "X" is an Unknown quantity, and a Spurt is a drip under pressure, then an "EXPERT" is an "Unknown Drip Under Pressure".
Why dont they just call it "Womenapause" instead.


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 Post subject: Re: 2002 swift GLS mk 1 GTi conversion
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:33 am 
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Location: Shropshire
Yeah I think I over exaggerated with 160 #-o but yeah at the the flywheel, I'll be happy with whatever it produces no matter what just because it's my first engine build.


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 Post subject: Re: 2002 swift GLS mk 1 GTi conversion
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:42 am 
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Location: Bunya QLD 4055
I agree you should just do gti swap incl harness, gbox and shafts to go with the hubs and brakes. You have doubled your power already. 14" rims will be required for gti brakes.

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If "X" is an Unknown quantity, and a Spurt is a drip under pressure, then an "EXPERT" is an "Unknown Drip Under Pressure".
Why dont they just call it "Womenapause" instead.


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 Post subject: Re: 2002 swift GLS mk 1 GTi conversion
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:16 am 
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Posts: 615
Location: NZ
gidday there.

Just so you are aware as Pictureshowman has said...

It costs a bundle to get the Horsepower you want...then also you will break other stuff like the box etc...unless that rallied box is already a dog box?

To help you.
I have 149 HP at the flywheel. That is without looking at the ECU upgrade I'm currently doing although Im not expecting any more horse power from that...just drivability among a couple of other things.

My engine is. G13B. Mildly ported, 12.5:1, honda Pistons, 222/365 cams (like a BD14), under drive pulley, lightened crank, a genuine cultus Manifold, 54mm throttle body and many other things but those are probably the power producers...My engine owes me 7k and the ecu upgrade is costing another 3 to 3.5 once all done. I do most work myself. It probably would have been cheaper in the long run to put my 197hp Hayabusa in it in the end....just so you are informed...cheers G


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 Post subject: Re: 2002 swift GLS mk 1 GTi conversion
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:30 pm 
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hi mate , yes big job ,not sure about the mk1 gti[ don't know much about mk1] swap into a mk4 ,the wiring loom is the main problem ,plugs ,position length of wire match up etc etc. .better off with the mk3 gti loom .you also need to change fuel pump ,brake master cylinder , fuel [bigger lines] and brake lines. .its a big job just charging from a mk3 gti spec into mk3 cino . .........just buy a good mk3 gti and save a s**t load of time and money..... good luck if you go ahead


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 Post subject: Re: 2002 swift GLS mk 1 GTi conversion
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:18 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Shropshire
Swift12 lovely motor mate she looks pristine! Unfortunately the gearbox that was in the MK1 was just a standard box but luckily got a swap for a mk 2 gti box! I am slowly collecting all the parts to make it fit into my car before i get the engine ready to go in, i am thinking of using the mk 2 gti inlet with gas flowed throttle body(or sr20 throttle body depending on compatibility), mk 1 gti head with a light skin aswell as the block decked very slightly! I have read up about the Honda p29 pistons fit but need machining?

Pictureshowman i will be trying with them items if they don't work i will source mk 3 gti parts, already running 14s on my swift.

Gticon. Oh yes it looks to be so, best be getting a banger to run about in whilst I'm doing conversion! Wiring should be ok as it do understand wiring slightly but it will also have a lot of help with it. The car will be stripped down completely when I'm doing conversion so new brake lines and fuel lines were happening anyway, what width fuel lines would you recommend i use? If it were that easy to buy one i would do, they're either rotton here in uk or silly money to buy, these 1 litre gls Swift's are £200 at most so no brainer!


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 Post subject: Re: 2002 swift GLS mk 1 GTi conversion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:21 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:40 am
Posts: 615
Location: NZ
Hi mate. I only went to the dog box for racing and because it's a small frame box. If you are just running it on the road and not racing then I'd think a mark two box would be fine as long as the second gear hub is in good condition as we'll as the diff. We ran a mark two box on the track and it was fine. Just too many big gaps between gears and the second gear synchro is weak.

To be honest I don't really know how long any of the small frame boxes will last on the power level you want....but plenty of guys here might know...what I can tell you is there is a way to put the large frame box in and get reliability. That's my go to if I break the dog box... :shock:

Yes the p29 Pistons need machining. I got mine done by Mike Cove in Canada. He grinds the 222/365 cams....they are awesome. Need to rev though.... :lol: I only had the head and the deck skimmed 4 thou each. There is 50 thou clearance between the inlet valve and the piston. I only have the original valve springs...there is no valve bounce at 8600 rpm. No valves have touched Pistons (until no 1 ran its bearing :roll: ) but it was only a kiss and both the piston and valve were checked and went back into the engine. Read up about the TB change on redline....I was running 52....now 54mm. I think the SR20 is 60mm. Don't discount your exhaust. Mine is 2.25"....and the secondaries are larger and much longer than stock...I use the stock cast manifold. I do not have any data but it seems to work very well and has a sweet note.

What you are doing is fun...if it's your hobby....I love tinkering with mine....just my son is getting impatient with me and wants it back on the track .....lol. Gotta get my A into G.

Good luck with the conversion....


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 Post subject: Re: 2002 swift GLS mk 1 GTi conversion
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:34 pm 
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Posts: 8
Location: Shropshire
I have been thinking about using the standard manifold as it seems to have a good flow rate anyway, and if I were to buy performance manifold it will either have to be custom or very expensive as I am using mk 1 gti head which has extra stud for exhaust manifold, Im pretty sure they are anyway?
If I were to make it a pure track or rally car I would get dogbox but as it's gunna be a daily it will need to be rather reliable! A lot of people have told me the synchros are gash! What is large frame box?
I may look into the p29 pistons but just for now I'm going to use the gti pistons, bloody hell you are lucky! Did you just get your cams regrinded? I am looking into that but as mine is an early g13b I have hollow cams and I'd rather throw them in the bin than in my engine!! Heard Piper make custom ones if you can get in contact with them!
I will be using 2" catback or straight through, want to keep back pressure up so I don't lose any power!
This is all new to me, I've helped my friends now and then with engine work on pug 106s and civics but nothing on Swift's other than strip the engine into pieces, it's gunna be a good learning curve an I may find a new full time hobby!


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 Post subject: Re: 2002 swift GLS mk 1 GTi conversion
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:32 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:41 am
Posts: 1364
Location: Bunya QLD 4055
Try Catcams.

_________________
If "X" is an Unknown quantity, and a Spurt is a drip under pressure, then an "EXPERT" is an "Unknown Drip Under Pressure".
Why dont they just call it "Womenapause" instead.


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 Post subject: Re: 2002 swift GLS mk 1 GTi conversion
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:43 pm 
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Posts: 615
Location: NZ
Hey there was someone selling two brand new gti cams on redline here? Maybe solids? Perfect for grinding. Good price too. Was it hertz?


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 Post subject: Re: 2002 swift GLS mk 1 GTi conversion
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:40 am
Posts: 615
Location: NZ
https://www.redlinegti.com/forum/viewto ... =3&t=55356

Here ya are mate....$250? That's just crazy for new cams....so cheap. Get them ground to a sweet profile....


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 Post subject: Re: 2002 swift GLS mk 1 GTi conversion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:37 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:18 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Shropshire
Cheers for that they look lovely but at the moment I still haven't got the engine work done but have been thinking to go aftermarket, I will have a look at catcams now I didn't think they did them for g13b, have been looking at tighe but will have to get shipped to uk, also should I be thinking about buying a new ECU? I have the MK1 loom and ECU and not sure if it will be compatible in 2002 swift, I think with a few bits of chopping and soldering should do the trick but I will find out when it comes to it..


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 Post subject: Re: 2002 swift GLS mk 1 GTi conversion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:11 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:40 am
Posts: 615
Location: NZ
The 222/365 profile works really well that mike Cove in Canada grinds on the stock cams. Can use with hydraulic lifters no worries. From what I have read....turbo....use stock cultus cams....NA get some cams...but be aware the more wild they are the more torque they give away in the low to mid range....which sucks with a stock gti box.

About the ECU. Unsure about how the stock one will run your engine after the mods but I can tell you about what I found.

I needed more fuel. It was a bit too lean in places after the dyno. I fitted a tomei fpr and that gave us some adjustability but it happens right though the map....simply increasing fuel pressure so it gave a bigger squirt all the time. That was perfect but not at idle. Fouled plugs and like a singer had to clear its throat often to drive around the pits. Enter the new fandangled ECU. 8-[ Hopefully our ECU change might help with the torque a bit by removing timing scatter and building the best timing/fuel map we can. Plus I guess some adjustable cam gears I have at some stage I can fit and fiddle around with.



At the very least with mods I'd imagine you would need to chip the ECU.
All food for thought


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 Post subject: Re: 2002 swift GLS mk 1 GTi conversion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:44 am
Posts: 199
Hi Kris,

Your camshafts are group A spec if iirc as it was in a rally car.

I do have plug in and play Adaptronics ECU which is good enough for your power but not turbo charge 300+ monster engine I'm building. I have engine harness for mk2 Gti engines.

If you use mk2 Gti harness with OEM ECU, you will hit problems of running speedo sensor from speedo.

I do have all of the parts you need to make your car so let me know if you need any of my goods.
I also have 74.5mm Cultus pistons which makes 11.5:1 CR. I have injectors from mk2 Gti which your name has on.Also mk1 Gti Diff I still have so there.

Keep in touch and let's see if you can build your dream.

Cheers
Atchi


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 Post subject: Re: 2002 swift GLS mk 1 GTi conversion
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:18 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Shropshire
Swift12 I am UK based so buying parts from America and Canada can be really expensive, but I'm sure I could find someone in uk that can grind them down, it's just it'll be cheaper to buy new aftermarket than buy the cultus cams and pay import tax, as well as the regrinding.. I am not looking for torque as the gearboxes don't handle it to well, looking for 4-8k rev range power. I will be using standard for just to get it running and if that isn't sufficient enough I will upgrade, also I need a efi fuel tank I think, but hoping I can get around that and just try and fit gti fuel pump in my tank. I will get get it mapped and dyno'd once all up and running so she runs spot on, but still stuck on whether to go throttle bodies or just use MK2 inlet with sr20 tb #-o

Cheers atchi I'm not sure on spec of cam as the chap said engine had never been split, but I would need a more experienced person to check them to know...


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 Post subject: Re: 2002 swift GLS mk 1 GTi conversion
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:30 am
Posts: 268
Location: Napier
Most of us are in Australia or New Zealand, imagine what it is like for us!

Lots of good suggestions here, take advantage of what people have done before you so you do it once and do it right.

Gearboxes will handle some torque, it comes down to how aggressively you put it to the road all the time.

ITBs will sound cool and give good upper band power, can be a pain to install/manufacture etc

Not sure about the EFI fuel tank you mention, I think you are confused there. The GTi pump might fit, but it possibly not an upgrade from what is already in there.

As mentioned, 160HP N/A is costly to achieve but is possible. Post some pics when you can, we love them!

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A Kiwi learning to fly in a Mk1.


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