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 Post subject: FS: Roll centre correction uprights?LCA -Gti Group buy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:00 am
Posts: 3501
Location: Brisbane
Motorsport use only
For years guys racing gti swifts have had to put up with suspension geometry that is far from ideal, once a swift is lowered the front geometry is compromised and there hasn't really been an easy fix, most people just put up with it .
Well Ive been working on the solution for quite a while now and Ive tested it out on my own mk3 gti race car(2x test days and 2x race meetings) and on Puss on boosts mk1 gti and the difference is amazing ,it totally transforms the handling and has made the lap times tumble.
I have five sets of suspension at my Machinist right now and if I get the whole lot machined at once he is willing to reduce his labour costs(which means cheaper deals for you guys).
So what I have come up with involves using some components from new swifts mixed with the original gti struts and a modified gti lower control arm(LCA).
The easiest way to show the difference in the upright is in the pics below, basically the lower ball joint locates in a position approx 40mm below that of a mk2/3 gti upright, this will alter the angle of the lower control arm from basically being horizontal to being lower on the outboard end by approx 40mm(depending on how low the car is sat on its springs),instantly correcting the roll center in the front of the car.A second benefit is that the castor angle of the new upright gives more camber on turn so less static camber is required.
The other benefits of the new upright are shorter steering arms giving quicker steering movement for less turns of the rack and the steering arms are in such a position that it almost eliminates the poor bump steer that is inherent with the std gti upright on a lowered car(on my car this has improved from 3mm of bump steer per side for 25mm travel in bump to less than .5mm for 25mm travel)
An additional benefit is that the new swift brake calipers and larger discs can easily be used which then means you can buy decent race pads off the shelf as nearly all race pad manufacturers cater for the swift sport caliper pad.

So basically you remove your existing gti hub from upright and fit it to the new upright,then replace the lower control arm with the new control arm, fit the new swift calipers and discs and your done .
I have already built several sets of these (for my own car ,zuboos Puss on boost and Gti tripod)and Ive been fitting the gti hubs with good quality new swift compatible bearings and also fitted long ARP studs whilst the whole thing is disassembled, I can do all this as a package but to save costs you can do it yourself.

So what the kit consists of-For mk2/3gti
Two new swift uprights milled to fit into the existing gti strut points,also milled to allow for camber adjustment on bottom of strut.(Accepts original gti hubs)
Set of 2nd hand new swift discs and calipers ,discs centrebore machined to fit onto gti hub, and machined to gti 114 pcd stud pattern.
Pair of gti lower control arms(exchange) modified to accept a modified new swift ball joint(new high quality ball joint)
Pair of new swift Tie rod ends(new , high quality)
The price for the kit as listed above if bought in this group buy is $790 plus freight(which is a saving of approx $100,if machined individually), you will also need to send me a pair of lower control arms (cleaned) that the new ball joints will be fitted to.
If you require new wheel bearings these can be bought from me at $80 each
Arp studs long (m1.5 thread) $55 set of four
The kit is slightly different for the mk1 (if interested pm me)
I have also had two different brake combinations made to fit these uprights (at additional cost),zuboos car has willwood calipers and mg discs and all that was required to fit these was a slight modification to the dogbone that locates the calipers,Ive opted for the larger swift sport discs and agin this was a matter of making a dogbone mount to suit.

If your genuinely interested in buying one of these kits please send me a pm and I can explain any further questions you may have.

1st pic is on left new swift upright compared to gti upright(right)
2nd pic shows close up of new swift upright showing different length/height of steering arm (it is below centre line of bearing)
3rd pic gti upright
4th pic new assembly ready to fit,gti hub ,new bearings ,new long ARP studs.
5th pic ,not a good pic but shows the new modified ball joint install in LCA.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Roll centre correction uprights?LCA -Gti Group buy
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:33 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:59 pm
Posts: 637
Location: Wollongong-NSW
Great work Dave.

Lap time improvements are worth gold.

This is a simple and cost effective way to improve a gti track car handling.

New brakes are a big plus due to the options of late model pads avaiability.

Again well done. These are going to fly off the shelf, you better stock up:)

I rate this as one the best posts you've ever made.

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 Post subject: Re: FS: Roll centre correction uprights?LCA -Gti Group buy
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:46 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:19 pm
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Location: Outback Tassie
This is a great thing Dave well done mate! Now on my wishlist to save up for! =D>

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 Post subject: Re: FS: Roll centre correction uprights?LCA -Gti Group buy
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:00 am
Posts: 3501
Location: Brisbane
O.k. this is definitely going ahead, I have five confirmed orders.
I have been asked by several guys to price my current spec brake package which is the swift sport disc with sport caliper and pfc brake pads , this does add additional cost as a dogbone mount needs to be CNC made to suit spacing out the caliper.I will price this up asap and report back to all concerned.

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 Post subject: Re: FS: Roll centre correction uprights?LCA -Gti Group buy
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:54 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:35 pm
Posts: 843
Location: newcastle
Dave ,
This does mean then that aftermarket calipers for swift sport will bolt up doesnt it ?

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 Post subject: Re: FS: Roll centre correction uprights?LCA -Gti Group buy
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:00 am
Posts: 3501
Location: Brisbane
Thats most likely a no because the sport has a completly different upright with a much bigger bearing carrier(hub), most aftermarket calipers have some sort of mounting brkt supplied with them to suit each vehicle ,however as I am using the m15 upright a brkt made for the swift sport would not fit!!.

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 Post subject: Re: FS: Roll centre correction uprights?LCA -Gti Group buy
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:21 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:48 am
Posts: 5
Location: Australia
Hey Dave, sent you a PM... Seems to be stuck in outbox ☹️


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Roll centre correction uprights?LCA -Gti Group buy
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:25 pm 
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PMs stay in your outbox until they're read by the receiver.

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 Post subject: Re: FS: Roll centre correction uprights?LCA -Gti Group buy
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:40 am
Posts: 876
Location: NZ
I don’t know if he is here anymore. I sent a few pm’s to him with no answer in relatively recent times.
Are you after a setup or info? I have done the mod which I ended up working out myself.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Roll centre correction uprights?LCA -Gti Group buy
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:30 am
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Location: Napier
Busy focusing on his business, I have not seen him on in almost a year. Best to contact him direct at his business.

Edit - he was on today :D

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 Post subject: Re: FS: Roll centre correction uprights?LCA -Gti Group buy
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 2:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:11 am
Posts: 60
Location: Trinidad
Will my brake kit (will wood) from my GTi be able to be used if I do the new swift upright modification?


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Roll centre correction uprights?LCA -Gti Group buy
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 4:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:38 am
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Location: Cust
Yes, works for me. I added a 5mm spacer behind the rotor hat rather than modify the caliper mount.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Roll centre correction uprights?LCA -Gti Group buy
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 12:09 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:11 am
Posts: 60
Location: Trinidad
Thanks I will do that, I'm guessing the new swift rack ends thread onto our tie rods


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Roll centre correction uprights?LCA -Gti Group buy
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 2:50 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:11 am
Posts: 60
Location: Trinidad
Also, i guess you can space the rotor hat or skim the caliper bracket?


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Roll centre correction uprights?LCA -Gti Group buy
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 5:46 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:38 am
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Possibly, mine didn't have enough clearance between the rotor and caliper mounting bolts unless I spaced the rotor. My rotor is a one piece hat and rotor, if you have removable hats then you could probably change the hat to get enough clearance and skim the bracket for any remaining and that would probably be tidier.

Measure things up before you start. With the hubs you'll loose a little track on either side. If you modify your LCA's as done in this "Group Buy" thread then the LCA's will also be shorter. I used Mazda bolt-in ball joints to avoid this problem.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Roll centre correction uprights?LCA -Gti Group buy
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 8:13 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:11 am
Posts: 60
Location: Trinidad
So I goty spindles today. One thing I noticed additionally is that the swift hub being 4x100 accepts a GTi CV joint. This means that the front can be easily converted to 4x100 if desired. Has anyone went down this route, this was just a fast mock up at home.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Roll centre correction uprights?LCA -Gti Group buy
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 9:29 am 
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Most people, including me, wanted to retain their existing wheels so used the GTi hub. To go 4x100 you'd need new wheels and re-drill your brake hats and rear hubs. If you were starting from scratch then swift sport uprights might be a better option and go 5x114.3 and use the brakes as well. I understand the CV also fits but I haven't tried it myself.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Roll centre correction uprights?LCA -Gti Group buy
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 11:09 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:11 am
Posts: 60
Location: Trinidad
Well my present rims are 4 hole universal, going to 4x100 opens up further options so I will go that direction and work on converting the rear later on. I will keep you updated with progress.
Thanks for the info!


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Roll centre correction uprights?LCA -Gti Group buy
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:33 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:23 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Rockhampton
Gid'ay Dave,
this project sounds Great . . Well done.

I have been trying to orchestrate a brake/suspension upgrade for almost 2yrs now, but just
been let down by unreliable people . . .
This upgrade looks to be very good value for money, & from the photos, it looks like top
quality work. If it is at all possible, I would like to put my name down for two sets.
I will be in touch with you in about 2 or 3 weeks & hopefully we can get the details sorted
out.

All the best . . & thanks for sharing this with the "Swift" community.
Cheers
Guy :D


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