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 Post subject: Motorsport suspension setups
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:35 pm 
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Wondering what people are using to get their cars to stick to the track/drag strip/street a bit better...?
Most turbo guys have problems with wheelspin..... even with the semi slicks :lol:
Ive seen alot of people put in 600 pound springs in the rear to help the equation in a launch.. what about the front...?
Overcoming axle tramp.... swaybars.... anti-lift kits etc.

Pretty much just wondering what people have done/plan to do, and how it has worked out for them?
Cheers!

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 Post subject: Re: Motorsport suspension setups
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:24 pm 
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Kstar. wrote:
Wondering what people are using to get their cars to stick to the track/drag strip/street a bit better...?
Most turbo guys have problems with wheelspin..... even with the semi slicks :lol:
Ive seen alot of people put in 600 pound springs in the rear to help the equation in a launch.. what about the front...?
Overcoming axle tramp.... swaybars.... anti-lift kits etc.

Pretty much just wondering what people have done/plan to do, and how it has worked out for them?
Cheers!


Aside from decent shock and springs... poly suspension bushes, solid engine mounts, upper strut bar with an engine steady. Maybe a lower brace.

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 Post subject: Re: Motorsport suspension setups
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:02 am 
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I am going to try and play around with the suspension. I have the 600lb springs on the back and I would like to try double bump stops to reduce suspension travel.

In the front important, I think, to stop the weight transfer to the rear of the car so perhaps if you can adjust the height at the front coilovers etc.

Engine movement I believe is an issue so pretty solid mounts would be the way to go.

I am interested in the comments about bracing, how will that help?

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 Post subject: Re: Motorsport suspension setups
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:52 am 
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flying grape wrote:
I am interested in the comments about bracing, how will that help?


Kayser asked about setups for track/drag/street - which is three questions in one. Probably why braces are coming into the conversation.

Kstar. wrote:
Wondering what people are using to get their cars to stick to the track/drag strip/street a bit better...?


What works for the track isn't necessarily a good setup for the strip. Might be better to discuss one at a time!

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 Post subject: Re: Motorsport suspension setups
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:19 am 
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[YLD80Y] wrote:

What works for the track isn't necessarily a good setup for the strip. Might be better to discuss one at a time!


Completely agree.

There are a few common things like engine movement and flex in the front suspension mounting points which apply to all forms of motorsport, other than that drag racing has little in common with any other form of motorsport in terms of suspension setup.


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 Post subject: Re: Motorsport suspension setups
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:59 am 
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I think maybe he was more after individual people stating what type of racing they are setting up for and the suspension setup they have found works best for that type of racing rather than jus an overall suspension package. Saves makin several threads for each type of racing

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 Post subject: Re: Motorsport suspension setups
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:11 pm 
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GT-15-HO wrote:
I think maybe he was more after individual people stating what type of racing they are setting up for and the suspension setup they have found works best for that type of racing rather than jus an overall suspension package. Saves makin several threads for each type of racing


Yep... this what I did.... just didn't want multiple threads :D
Some of us have cars built specifically for circuit... some for drag... hillclimbs.... or a mixture of all :mrgreen:
Some cars are used as daily drivers.... but also weekend warriors with as little as a wheel swap....

So the thread is about...
What do you use your car for?
What have you done to setup the car?
And how does it perform for you? (and any future ideas you want to try or experiment with?)

Just think it would a good opportunity for some of the experienced guys to share their knowledge with each other.... and also help educate the us novice drivers as they go 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Motorsport suspension setups
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:09 pm 
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... and get confusing as s**t too! :P We weren't even a few posts in and that happened!

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 Post subject: Re: Motorsport suspension setups
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:10 pm 
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Kstar. wrote:

Ive seen alot of people put in 600 pound springs in the rear to help the equation in a launch..

Just remember there is no point in just throwing heavy rate springs in, and not thinking about the shocks. They have to be valved to suit the spring rate.

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 Post subject: Re: Motorsport suspension setups
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:18 pm 
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also heavy rated springs will play havoc with your bushes.

Mark might be a good spot to post the pic of your rear control arm bush. Although I tend to think that was a material failure.
But I did have a situation where the basic neopharene bushes that have expanded a bit once the 600lbs springs were fitted. Those forces acting on your wheels have to go somewhere. If not the springs then the next point of impact (after the tyres) is the bushes. Expect worn bushes.

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 Post subject: Re: Motorsport suspension setups
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:11 pm 
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Thats good! =D>
Tekkie and Waylow... you both have cars that are developed.... tell us about your cars...? :D

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 Post subject: Re: Motorsport suspension setups
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:17 pm 
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Front, rear control arm bush. Approx 2000km old.

Mine has all noltec bushes al round, offset camber bushes at the front. Noltec adjustable strut tops, koni's all round, coil over conversion on front, tekkie will tell you spring rates and sway bar thicknesses.

As much as suspension setup is important, don't foget the importance of alignment and tire pressures. Tire pressures alone are probably the most important factor in setup.

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Last edited by waylow on Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Motorsport suspension setups
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:20 pm 
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Kstar. wrote:
Yep... this what I did.... just didn't want multiple threads :D
Some of us have cars built specifically for circuit... some for drag... hillclimbs.... or a mixture of all :mrgreen:
Some cars are used as daily drivers.... but also weekend warriors with as little as a wheel swap....

I think it would be easier to find info if there were multiple threads. Then you wouldn't need to search through 1 big thread to find info on x motorsport. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Motorsport suspension setups
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:26 pm 
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If you guys want to have multiple threads.... I dont mind... just delete this one and do some sticky's.... :wink:
I just didnt want to thread wh**e 3 at once.... :oops:

You could have one for DRAG, one for CIRCUIT, and one for RALLY?

I figure there is already heaps of things on this forum about engine and making power/response.....
so now some stickys for handling in these areas of motorsport...?

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 Post subject: Re: Motorsport suspension setups
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:08 pm 
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i dont feel they need to be stickied otherwise we would end up with 10-20 stickys if we kept doing that

hmm waylow i find that comment about tire pressures being the most important part of the setup very interesting. care to elaborate on reasons why and what you have found to work/not work at different track meets? i understand that you may not wish to share your hard earned info. i understand different pressures will change the amount of grip you can get but is there any other factors it can change?

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 Post subject: Re: Motorsport suspension setups
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:46 pm 
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Tire pressures will change through the temperature of the air inside the tire. As the air heats up, it will expand, raising the pressure. As is cools, it contracts, so the pressure drops.

The hard part is working out the hot pressure where the tires are "on". This means where the grip threshold of the tire is at it highest. This will depend on many factors, car, drive type, track surface, track temp, ambient temp, tire type, driving style ect.

GENERALLY a semi slick will be "on" anywhere between 32-36 psi. Like I said it all depends on a lot of factors. This can only be determined by trial and error.

Also bear in mind, as a tire ages, its performance level decreases. Slowly at first, to a point, after that it rapidly declines.

So, long story short, what works for me won't work for everyone :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Motorsport suspension setups
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:33 pm 
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Nitrogen filled tyres reduce that expanding effect.

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 Post subject: Re: Motorsport suspension setups
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:40 pm 
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waylow wrote:
Also bear in mind, as a tire ages, its performance level decreases. Slowly at first, to a point, after that it rapidly declines.


I was under the impression that as a tyre was worn down it's performance increased (namely grip)?
Isn't that why you 'shave' new tyres down for track use?
Or have I just got things all mixed up again. #-o


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 Post subject: Re: Motorsport suspension setups
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:06 am 
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tekkie wrote:
Nitrogen filled tyres reduce that expanding effect.


Hi Tekkie,

Here is a helpful article about Nitrogen http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/edito ... index.html
I was thinking of doing it but WLD80Y and others tipped me off that it is just a gimmick.
2grams lighter and 1 degree C cooler are the calculations!! :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: Motorsport suspension setups
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:22 am 
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I have been researching tyres recently - still haven't gone out and put my money where my mouth is yet :? , but the following may be useful...


A thread at http://www.circuitclub.com.au/forum/vie ... 5&start=75
discussing semi-slick tyres has this comment from John Boston, Racing Car driver & Advanced Driving trainer;
"The old Yoki Ao48's are very outclassed now. The Toyo 888's, Kumho V700's, Dunlop's and Bridgestone's I think are much better.

I used the Toyo R1R's to win the Clubman class at Superlap last year. If I was going to run in that class ( which I am not ) I would seriously look at the new Kumho's because of the tyre rating."


This link refers to a review by Warren Luff for Motor Mag a couple of months ago (half way down the page is the key bit); http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums ... tml&st=800

This review, although old, seems useful too;
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/au ... review.htm

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