g16b 16v engine mods/whre to buy?

Everything technical and mechanical for the Baleno
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bails
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hi new to this forum but owned a few zooks all have been 1.3. i have finally got myself a 1.6 16v engine and want to no what the most commom mods people do to them and where to buy parts for them. looked a fair bit around on the net but all parts for sale have been for the 1.3 any help or steering me in the right direction would be great.
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bails wrote:hi new to this forum but owned a few zooks all have been 1.3. i have finally got myself a 1.6 16v engine and want to no what the most commom mods people do to them and where to buy parts for them. looked a fair bit around on the net but all parts for sale have been for the 1.3 any help or steering me in the right direction would be great.
i have access for vitara 1.6 engine.. single cam.. my cultus gti used vitara bottom end for better torque. Some swifter used stock 1.3 block but using 1.6 head :roll:
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1600GTI
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I have put a twincam gti head on my missus 1.6 baleno block. It gets you more hp than any other mod. Unless you turbo it.
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strider
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1600GTI wrote:I have put a twincam gti head on my missus 1.6 baleno block. It gets you more hp than any other mod. Unless you turbo it.
agree with you mate !
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Is it the twin cam head that makes the increase, or the aftermarket engine management required to run it on the 1600 block? I don't see how an extra cam would make much improvement on its own, considering both heads are 16v and the SOHC has larger valves to start with.
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[YLD80Y] wrote:Is it the twin cam head that makes the increase, or the aftermarket engine management required to run it on the 1600 block? I don't see how an extra cam would make much improvement on its own, considering both heads are 16v and the SOHC has larger valves to start with.
the vitara block will make the increase.. just plug in to gti head and need to modified the block to fix the gearbox
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That doesn't answer my question. If the G16B has a 16 valve head, how does fitting a head with an extra cam increase the power output?
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[YLD80Y] wrote:That doesn't answer my question. If the G16B has a 16 valve head, how does fitting a head with an extra cam increase the power output?
i dont know how to describe it technically and im not good in that. but from my experience, the respon is much2 better from the stock g13b block..

maybe someone can advice??
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SUZ137
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good point yldboy

i think the only real gain in this combo is the flowrate and airspeed of the g13b head
with an extra cam the air can move faster with less resistance
for considerable power gains in na, alot of homework has to go into things like bore size,stroke
compression cams and head flow to get it to work efficiently and reliably

nascar is a good example of this
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1600GTI
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A SOHC 16 valve engine would have better torque on the low end where the DOHC valvetrain’s weight results in lower torque. But at high engine speeds, the 16 valve DOHC engine’s peak torque and horsepower would be greater. I have tested this down the quarter mile. Before I put the twincam conversion the SOHC is quicker off the line but after 100m the DOHC eats it up with the torque and HP climbing in higher revs. Other wise a if a 1.6 SOHC was a better setup then the baleno should smash a 1.3 twincam GTI.................but it doesnt. All up the the conversion has taken 1.5 seconds off my 1/4 mile.
And I am now rebuilding the g16a/twincam. It has 11.5-1 compression bigger cams(cant remember specs but its bigger than the bd14 cams) stronger valve springs bigger valves etc.
plus $2500 worth of porting and cleaning up the head.
expecting mid-high 13s. There is no way I could extract that power from a SOHC.
And i dont want to hear. Awww you should have turboed it. N/A all the way. Plus its my missus car and i require her alive for a while longer.
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SUZ137
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G16B 8 valve
70KW @ 5600
133NM @ 4000 RPM

G16B 16 valve
73KW @ 6000
133NM @ 3000 RPM

G13B DOHC
74KW @ 6450
113NM @ 4950 RPM


all pretty much on par to me


1600gti - your new set up should work very well
have you thought about using a quad throttle setup off a busa these would be perfect for an n/a set up with that combo

back on topic

bails
there s not that much off the shelf ,for these but theres is lots of aftermarket parts that can be modified to fit such as pistons rods cams etc
its not out of the norm to fit 4age rods into a g13b
i would suggest having a chat to tjmgti or tekkie they have had some nice results going n/a
Last edited by SUZ137 on Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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bails
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yer thanks for the help. was thinking bout getting some cams and maybe some new valve springs. kinda that sort of thing dont want or need to do anything to extreme just a little bit more power and tourqe.
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1600GTI
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SUZ137 wrote:G16B SOHC
70KW @ 5600
133NM @ 4000 RPM

G16B DOHC
73KW @ 6000
133NM @ 3000 RPM

G13B DOHC
74KW @ 6450
113NM @ 4950 RPM


all pretty much on par to me

WOW a DOHC G16B???????????????????
I dont know everything but from what i know there is no DOHC g16b motor ever factory made.
There is a rare g16k DOHC which is only has 8 valves
Where did you get your source from SUZ137??
I cant really understand why anyone would say that there aint much difference between a SOHC and a DOHC cause it aint for friggin cosmetic reasons.
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1600GTI
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sorry mate, back to your question.
We tried modifying our original g16b with a bigger cam and bigger t/b was good for about a week then it felt same old same old. If you are mechanically minded and do some research. DOHC is the way to go. I am not trying to push you just seems like your going down the same track everyone is and eventually you end up spending more money to try to get more power and its quite hard to squeeze the power out of those SOHC heads. Only g16b SOHC ones that make good power have a turbo attatched.
If you are keen on staying with what you got try getting a aftermarket ecu and porting the head along with a cam to suit.
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irenl
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IMHO, the only advantage by going twin cam, is the freedom to set the inlet and outlet valves timing independently... that's where the power comes from. But the twin cam head is not perfect either... it need a lot of work to flow good on a 1.6 donk.

there is a reason corvettes went back to push-rods last time... it starts with $$.

Was there not an SOHC8 head for G series?

IMHO, it's the engine management that made the difference. Try comparing phase 1 G16B to phase 2 G16B in the vitara/escudo... internally alike, but phase 2 produced 7ps and 0.7kg-m more at the same rpm than phase 1. That'd be the last iteration of G16 by suzuki.

I've recently test driven a J24 vitara, with VVT... decent engine, drive by wire response too slow. with some alterations, that'd be a nice upgrade for J18 baleno... though it is very much dead in the lower rpm (which got me back into the sohc8 toyota donk -RZ1).

I'm convinced suzuki have spent too much money on their newer models trying to satisfy EPA and goons, rather than enthusiasts.
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irenl
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Anyways, Bails...

start with the ECU, t/b (if yours a phase 1, read my other thread on t/b), head works, and short block work. If you're looking for direct bolt-ons... then there aren't much really, other than extractor and in box filter (the later doesn't add any power). The lightweight flywheel DMWdave offered simply frees up a bit more power used to spin the heavy factory one.
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itsdamo
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If I had my time over I would have bought another Baleno GTX or a Swift GTi and steered clear of the 1.6 Baleno due to the fact the 1.3 Twin Cam has such a huge aftermarket and can easily make a lot of power.

I too have toyed with the idea of fitting a twin cam head to my Baleno but till now have resisted.

The 1.6 has bigger valves and better port design but is let down by a lame camshaft profile.

The 1.6 has loads of torque down low and I actually like that characterstic.
eg. Pulling through roundabouts in 4th gear at 1000rpm and having useable albeit low boost at 1300-1500rpm is something I doubt the Swift GTi's can do.

The valvetrain / rockers etc. are not too good on the 1.6 and adjusting the clearances is a pain that you don't have with the Twin Cam head's hydraulic buckets.

I would also avoid a lightened flywheel if I had my time over... on a street car it is horrid.

An aftermarket ECU is the best mod you can make... if it is tuned well.
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1600GTI
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SUZ137 wrote:G16B 8 valve
70KW @ 5600
133NM @ 4000 RPM

G16B 16 valve
73KW @ 6000
133NM @ 3000 RPM

G13B DOHC
74KW @ 6450
113NM @ 4950 RPM

Thats better SUZ137
If the g13b produces 74KW and the g13bb which is a 16 valve SOHC only produces 59KW proves thet having a DOHC makes a HELL of a difference. Then using the general theroy of gains to the g13's a g16 DOHC would produce approx 88 KW.
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Pauly
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you are comparing Apples and oranges
g13bb: has low compression, cam profile that is not for making power
g13b: high compression, cam profile to make power mid to high rpm (high rpm is key with making power N/A)
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1600GTI
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No i am pretty sure i was comparing sohc to dohc. The dohc has higher compression to suit two cams. In the end you can tune two cams better than one.
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Pauly
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I didn't say you couldn't get more out of a twin cam!!
All I said was you comparison is like comparing apples to oranges...
Two completely different bottom ends. Same block but different internals..
And since when do you need 10.5-1 cr to run twin cam?
I think g13bb has 8.5-1 cr but don't quote me on that
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irenl
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1600GTI wrote:The dohc has higher compression to suit two cams.
ROTFLMAO. Since when does compression ratio dictate the number of camshafts you can run? For all I care, a short block can have a 7.5:1 and still run a twin cam...

With 2 cams, you can alter inlet and outlet valves timing independently.. And you can have optimal chamber shape without the use of rocker arms needed in SOHC (though mitsu 4G63 still run rockers in their twin cam head), for a more direct valve actuation which is important for valve control at higher rpm.

And then there's the other argument that more valves is not necessarily better.
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1600GTI
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I didnt say you have to have higher compression but having two cams make it easier to handle higher compression. Irenl i didnt say it dictates the compression ratio. The valve timing and tuning on two cams makes it easier to keep the compression and higher rpm stable.
Anyways i am over this argument. I have gone twincam and its my choice. If you dont agree big woop.
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1600GTI
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irenl wrote: And then there's the other argument that more valves is not necessarily better.
One more thing HAHAHA yeah right mate!!!!
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SUZ137
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farout looks like this needs a thread all on its own
alot of people have different views on this topic

i dont think this is helping bails out

1600gti .... i hope this time your motor is done properly and meets your expectations .
i see no problem making your desired hp as i said long time ago
would be good to see it in the number 1 spot on the motorsport n/a dyno page
you should try and get a copy of desktop dyno very interesting app
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itsdamo
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Besides all the arguements for and against a twin cam head.

My understanding is that the G13B twin cam head has far superior flow ability / air speed call it what you will simply due to the angle of the valves.

It is a far superior performance head design even with the smaller valves and less than ideal port design.

I understand the angle of the valves has a lot to do with it's flow and perfomance ability.

I may be wrong but I am also led to believe that in part the valve angle had a lot to do with why the motor was discontinued after 1999 as it could no longer easily meet the next years tighter emissions laws.

The single cam heads and even the Baleno 1.8 J18A engine has the narrower less performance friendly valve angles.
bails
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so im guessing from all replys that their not much around for the sohc.
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86mk1gti
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Look at Suzisport and Suzitech Both have Baleno specific sections (mostly for the 1600) Plenty on both sites to waste your money on.
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1600GTI
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The only mods that are good for dollar for horsepower would have to be extractors, Hi flow cat and a k&n pod filter. You will be amazed how much more response you have after each gear change with extractors. If you have more money to waste maybe a cam and aftermarket ecu.
I just got custom extractors made and i now have a spare 4-2-1 genie extractors in great condition avaliable for the g16b. Pity your so far away.
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Nikolas85gr
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Someone mentioned the G13BB.So,as an owner of a 1.3lt hatchback Baleno i can give you a bit specifics about it.It runs on 9.5:1CR and extracts 86hp or power @6000rpm and 10.5kgm of torque @3000rpm.To N/A tune of these including the G16B SOHC is a pain in the a**.
The G13BB and G16B are using bigger intake valves for better low end torque and power while the the twin cam G13B/G13K are using bigger exhaust valves for better mid to high rpm torque and power plus having the advantage of the twin cam set up handicapping you to modify it a lot easier.Plus the G13B head's flow is something that the SOHC engines can only dream of.And i can say that cause my 1.3 SOHC has been flowbenched and the results are lower than my G13B Twin Cam.
If you want to mod that G16B just turbo it!It's a torque monster and can handle good amounts of power and torque on stock internals.If you want easier way to tune it but also spend extra cash bolt the twin cam head like 1600GTi did and then turbo it.
We have a 1.3lt hatchback here running on stock internals for ~100.000kms on 1.5bar boost producing 165hp and 21kgm of torque!
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