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 Post subject: 94 swift gearbox swap/upgrade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:11 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:58 am
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Location: Australia
I hate creating new threads for no reason. But anything I search leads no where. Got a 94 gti with the close ratio box. Which are not a good option for a turbo build. Now I'm looking for a complete write up and parts list for a gearbox swap. I have heard you can use the 1.6 or hyuandi accent tranny but there is no info I can find about the actual swap. I could spend 1800 on the close ratio box and get it built by suzitech. But I don't think that's a good option for the for a turbo build.


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 Post subject: Re: 94 swift gearbox swap/upgrade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:34 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:19 pm
Posts: 2050
Location: Outback Tassie
Hi mate,

here is you go to for the most common questions asked over the years.

https://www.redlinegti.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6993

but there is no specific write up on the current best known setup to "bolt on" to a G13B. DMWDave is the go to here (though others have done it)using the casing for a g16b gearbox and the gearset and driveshafts for a Swift Sport.

Here is the link to how it was done with the g16 casing - still applies on this install - but doesn't talk about the newer internals that can be inserted in place of the g16 gearing etc.

https://www.redlinegti.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=37951

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 Post subject: Re: 94 swift gearbox swap/upgrade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:46 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:58 am
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Location: Australia
Tassie_mk1 wrote:
Hi mate,

here is you go to for the most common questions asked over the years.

https://www.redlinegti.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6993

but there is no specific write up on the current best known setup to "bolt on" to a G13B. DMWDave is the go to here (though others have done it)using the casing for a g16b gearbox and the gearset and driveshafts for a Swift Sport.

Here is the link to how it was done with the g16 casing - still applies on this install - but doesn't talk about the newer internals that can be inserted in place of the g16 gearing etc.

https://www.redlinegti.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=37951




Thank you very much mate, I have been searching for a good 3 hours. And anything I oit in google or on this forum, it brings up nothing or it's something that trails off topic pretty quickly.

And do you know what kills these gti boxs ? very says they can't handle anything. But they don't specific much


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 Post subject: Re: 94 swift gearbox swap/upgrade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:19 pm
Posts: 2050
Location: Outback Tassie
It's well documented GTi boxes aren't strong, with even mildly modified boxes breaking 2nd gear over and over again when abused. The gearsets are just not up to the task. With a good LSD and proper driving they can last well. Mk1's are known to be the tougher of the stock boxes (I did over 100 QM passes on a stock box in a car with over 300,000k's on it without issue)but the later models don't hold up well to boost etc unless driven nicely.

A suzitech strengthened box is not worth $2 for my money. For a good box talk to DMWDave about what you are wanting to achieve. He knows his boxes and build them right.

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 Post subject: Re: 94 swift gearbox swap/upgrade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:12 pm
Posts: 207
Location: Brisbane
When i rebuilt my 95 gti box i ended up with buying two additional mk3 boxes. All up it cost me $2000 in parts with a few bearing kits and scyncros, with my own time doing it. One thing i noticed was the mk1 boxes had a different tapered bearing on the rear of the main shaft. The backing plate was suposed to put preload on that bearing but they changed the setup and it had a almost floating rear bearing. I measured up approx similar preload and ordered a shim online to about the same. No prioblems yet, it has a nice direct shift. Maybe thats why the mk1 boxes seem harder? Just saying it’s not too hard to do yourself. I know i feel better knowing more.


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 Post subject: Re: 94 swift gearbox swap/upgrade
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:13 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:58 am
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Location: Australia
I have actually tried tracking down Dave from dmw. I sent him a personal message no response yet. We're currently pulling the motor down now. And it's only gonna be running a sr throttle body. Probably some bd14 cams if we can source them. All new gasket throughout. New pistons, acid wash. Port and polish only lightly mainly knock off castings and a nice finish. A haltech or some thing of the such. T28 custom manifold 3 inch dump, 3 inch exhaust. So to me it's not a wild build. But it will make a great track and weekend warrior with reliability in mind.


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 Post subject: Re: 94 swift gearbox swap/upgrade
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:14 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:58 am
Posts: 4
Location: Australia
I have actually tried tracking down Dave from dmw. I sent him a personal message no response yet. We're currently pulling the motor down now. And it's only gonna be running a sr throttle body. Probably some bd14 cams if we can source them. All new gasket throughout. New pistons, acid wash. Port and polish only lightly mainly knock off castings and a nice finish. A haltech or some thing of the such. T28 custom manifold 3 inch dump, 3 inch exhaust. So to me it's not a wild build. But it will make a great track and weekend warrior with reliability in mind.


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 Post subject: Re: 94 swift gearbox swap/upgrade
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:30 am
Posts: 257
Location: Napier
Splash the cash and fit a Kalmar dog box :D

https://www.redlinegti.com/forum/viewto ... 32&t=54910

You can use the G16 larger frame gearbox with the new Swift internals, I also have researched this topic extensively. There is no one COMPLETE guide on what to do, you need to piece it together.

Some nuggets of info I have found on this site:

" I would suggest going straight to the mk2/3 g16fwd sedan box, this is the larger frame gearbox which shares interchangeable internals with the current m16 swift sport, it will require a bit of engineering to sort out new gearbox mounts, but the rest of the parts like driveshafts , larger flywheel, clutch etc are later model stuff which will all bolt in to some degree."

"G16 box - easier to find
Use G16 selector forks - stronger
M16 1st and 2nd gears as stronger
M16, M18 and G16 - all CWP are interchangeable
G16 5th gear and hub complete"

"Gearbox options
G16\sport hybrid with lsd

Btw the way to determine frame size of gearset without splitting the box:
There are 3 14mm bolts (with philips head indents) on the top of the case, these retain springloaded balls on gear selector rods...
If all three are side by side its a small frame, if two are side by side and one is set apart from them, its the large frame gearset

From <http://www.redlinegti.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=49165>

DMWDave
To use a 1600 bellhousing on a G13b it requires modification,it is possible to use new swift gear parts in a 1600 sedan box,but the input shafts are different,so only the gearset itself can be changed if using a new swift box that has same tooth count on 1st and 2nd gear as the 1600 box.
Its also possible to use swift sport gearbox on a g13b using 1600 sedan bellhousing modified to suit(atm this gives the closest set of ratios and 4.4 cwp), note that the sport,M18,1600 sedan boxes all have larger diffs than the G13b ,which require larger driveshafts splines,they also have larger input shaft splines that require different clutch.The 1600,sport and M18 all take a larger dia flywheel,I imagine the J18 would also use the large dia flywheel/clutch.
To fit a 1600 sedan box to a g13 the centre driveshaft from the 1600 box is used but this requires a adaptor and a fair bit of machine work to the bearing support to make it fit the g13b block.Other items to consider are that all the bigger frame boxes use cable shift instead of rod change and they also use hydraulic clutch actuation,(I convert my 1600 gearbox kits to cable clutch).

From <http://www.redlinegti.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=42794&hilit=suzuki+part+numbers>

Hi,
To start with you need a g16(1600 sedan) or j18 (baleno)bellhousing or complete gearbox.
These bellhousings can be easily adapted to mate up to the g13b engine.
The g16 /j18 gearset can be used as is but it has a 3.5 cwp which is too tall for most applications.
The m16 (swift sport) box has the closest gear ratios of any of the large frame boxes and comes with a 4.4 cwp, so a good combination is to use the m16 box internals and fit the g16 bellhousing, only problem with this is the m16 boxes are pretty expensive (around $1000 secondhand)
A cheaper option is to fit a 4.1 cwp from a m15 gearbox into the g16 box.
If you can find a J18 gearbox this has the correct input shaft(which has 1st and 2nd gear built into it)so that you can then fit the m15 gearset into the j18 box(the m series boxes have double syncro rings on 1st and 2nd gears and are much smoother in there operation.
M18 gearset is able to be fitted to g16 box but has wider spaced ratios and a 3.9 cwp.
Basically the m15 boxes are cheap to buy but you cannot fit the m15 input shaft into a g16 bellhousing.
Any of the other mseries boxes are more expensive but better suited.
G16 boxes are pretty cheap but becoming rarer to find.
J18 boxes are even harder to find,although in the states they may be the same in a esteem??.

From <http://www.redlinegti.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=51144&hilit=+g16+gearbox>

Ive just been going through this whole g16/m15/m16 gearboxswap/ build so can tell you .
The m15 gearset can be used in the g16 box but only if you have the correct tooth count input shaft from a baleno j18 gearbox,(as the 1st and 2nd gears have different ratios).Otherwise you can use m15 3rd,4th and 5th on the g16 input.The m15 input shaft has a small (gti size) clutch spline but with a long plain shank through the spigot brg and differs in length to the m16 sport or g16 input shafts.
If you can get a m16 sport gearset you can fit everything into the g16 case(input shaft lengths are the same as g16 and spline is same).
M16,m18, and g16 diffs are interchangeable,but m16 has no facility for speedo drive atall and m18 has chopper wheel not speedo drive gear.(they all have same size driveshaft splines in diffs).So if your planning to use it in a gti, buy a lsd for the g16 as it will have facility for speedo drive gear.
New info Ive only just found out is that the m16 sport ratios cannot be used on either the m15 or g16 pinion shaft as the sport(m16) has 35mm od on the pinion shaft for 1st gear bearing and the m15 and g16 has 37mm od on the pinion shaft for 1st gear bearing. 
When swapping the m series gearset into the g16 case its best to use the g16 selector forks (stronger)and use the g16 fifth gear selector and hub complete.

From <http://www.redlinegti.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=50724&hilit=+g16+gearbox>

New Swift Sport M16A (5MT) 
(1) 3.250 
(2) 1.904 
(3) 1.407 
(4) 1.064 
(5) 0.885 
Final: 4.388 



From <http://www.redlinegti.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=259165#p259165>

Swift Sedan G16B (5MT) 
(1) 3.250 
(2) 1.772 
(3) 1.233 
(4) 0.911 
(5) 0.769 
Final: 3.722 

From <http://www.redlinegti.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=259165#p259165>

New Swift M15A (5MT) 
(1) 3.545 
(2) 1.904 
(3) 1.310 
(4) 0.969 
(5) 0.769 
Final: 4.105 

CWP 4.1

From <http://www.redlinegti.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=259165#p259165> "


Onenote is your friend....!

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 Post subject: Re: 94 swift gearbox swap/upgrade
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:30 am
Posts: 257
Location: Napier
Also Slim, with the mods you have in mind I do not think you will need to touch the gearbox at all. Only some mild changes which will add a few HP for sure, but it will not break the standard box, providing you are not dragging people off with it :D

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