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 Post subject: Sierra GTi Turbo convertion
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:01 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:10 pm
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Location: woodburn
Hi been reading alot of posts on here trying to find out how to go about
putting a turbo on my mk3 gti motor that will be going into a sierra.

I've read that i can turbo it with standard injectors fuel pump and just one
of those chips which are good for up to 10psi or so..

The motor is at the shop now getting rebuilt as i want it refreshed so once it goes
in it should last for a good while but my engine builder is worried about me running boost
on standard compression which i think he said was 10:1? I only want to run 7psi in
it with the chip will this be safe? i dont want to decompress it to much if i dont have to.
And with the chip and only running 7psi will it be putting to much fuel in?

any help will be greatly appreciated


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 Post subject: Re: Sierra GTi Turbo convertion
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:26 am 
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It will be fine. Ran the chipped turbo gti for about 70,000 Kim's with no dramas. No it won't be over fuelling it. The chip will also allow you to run 91 RON fuel if timing is left standard.

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 Post subject: Re: Sierra GTi Turbo convertion
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:16 am 
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I still don't get how that chip can be used for different boost-pressures. I mean, how can you use an universal chip without a map-sensor. The stock ECU uses MAF-sensor and that can't read boost...

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 Post subject: Re: Sierra GTi Turbo convertion
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:25 am 
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this is what im trying to work out?


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 Post subject: Re: Sierra GTi Turbo convertion
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:10 am 
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Short answer is it can't.

I don't have the long answer but my guess would be that it has a law of averages approach. Is @ x rpm there is approx x boost & so fuel is set to that.

I believe most of the swifts would be running a similar size turbo & so similar boost points & therefore it will work. Its never going to be as refined as an aftermarket computer & tune but then you'd spend a ton more money

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 Post subject: Re: Sierra GTi Turbo convertion
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:17 am 
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I can only speak for the Garndi turbo chip because I know how they were made. The basic theory is:

A GTi running an average turbo setup (10PSI, TD04, adjustable FPR) is run on a dyno with a flashable EPROM. Tuning is done to modify the factory ignition and fuel maps with 'safe' values for a turbo motor. These values are still fixed, although the ECU continues to operate as normal, using these base values against input from sensors. The flashed EPROM is then cloned and sold.

From that point when you start fitting the same chip to a different car, sensor inputs (including the MAF) can adjust fueling to some degree, but for extra boost you either need to wind up the FPR or fit larger injectors to accommodate for the EPROM's fixed injector pulse value. (Alternatively you can couple the chip with a piggy-back ECU.)

Flashed chips are designed to be a cheap, one-size-fits-most approach.

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 Post subject: Re: Sierra GTi Turbo convertion
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:10 pm 
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Standard car uses a Mass Air Flow meter. It measures the mass of air and based on that applies a timing figure and fuel "volume" for that air mass figure. It is not like MAP which measures a pressure produced by the air.

Once the computer reaches the top of the table it will continue to apply the same timing and fuel load despite the air mass increasing.

The issue with this is as people push up the boost pressure you are starting to lean out the mixture.

Garndi chip will happily support the 7-10psi boost range people are talking about with a small turbo. The AFRs are reasonably conservative and engine will not be that sensitive to AFR changes in the 12.5ish to 11.8ish+ range at an approximation. Leaner than this is getting very iffy and below 11.8 will be rather rich and start losing power.

As always suggest you put it on dyno and check AFRs. If need to add FPR then you should look at upgrading pump to suit.

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 Post subject: Re: Sierra GTi Turbo convertion
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:50 am 
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Location: woodburn
with a TD04 when will it start making boost?


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 Post subject: Re: Sierra GTi Turbo convertion
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:56 am 
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The td04L turbo has many different guises from 2002 onwards they changed impellar design and the later ones spool up earlier than pre 2002 ones ,on a bog stock swift gti engine a late model TD04L will start to spool around 2800 rpm and be on full boost before 3500.Basically the later the turbo you can get from a wrx the better the design is and this equates to faster spool up.dont be tempted by the knock off chinese versions stick with the genuine ihi turboes.
Much ,much better is the twin scroll vf series of turboes starting with vf36 through to vf45, earlier spool and much wider powerband, but requires totally different manifold design and possibly an overkill for a low boost budget set up.
I use the td04L turboes on my budget turbo kits with the garndi chip and have dynoed at least twenty of these now with good results up to around 10 psi boost.

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 Post subject: Re: Sierra GTi Turbo convertion
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:21 pm 
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Location: woodburn
thanks dmwdave thats probably a little bit later than i would like and twin scroll too much for
me i have a toyota starlet gt think i might try find another ct9


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 Post subject: Re: Sierra GTi Turbo convertion
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:48 am 
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Location: Brisbane
Try late model subaru forester, I think they are called ihi td035.
This will spool up around 1800-2000 and be on full boost by 2300,it will produce a max of approx 13-15psi and uses the same manifold flange as the td04l.Very cheap to buy 2nd hand as the forester guys fit the larger td04l as an upgrade.

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 Post subject: Re: Sierra GTi Turbo convertion
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:54 am 
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not sure what availability would be like these days but previously I also used a TB22/23? turbo from the TT 300ZX. bush bearing but good small size. Ran well with the chipped engine and was happy as a low boost setup. On the garndi chip was making around 95-100kW at front wheels mark off about 7psi and spooled quite quickly.

Because of the way the chip is mapped I see zero point in looking for turbo with greater boost capacity and larger top end, looking for faster spool will give you better results under the curve.

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 Post subject: Re: Sierra GTi Turbo convertion
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:22 pm 
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deralic22 wrote:
thanks dmwdave thats probably a little bit later than i would like and twin scroll too much for me i have a toyota starlet gt think i might try find another ct9


No direct offense intended to you, but I always scratch my head when someone puts a GTi motor into a Sierra, considering that the G13B provides pretty much the opposite of the characteristics you need off road. Turbocharging on top of that only adds to the problem IMO, because a supercharger is better suited to the application.

Anyway, in your situation you could consider a GT17 as an alternative to the CT9. It will run out of puff at the top end, but if you're running above a few thousand RPM offroad then the bigger concern would be the clutch and driveline.

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 Post subject: Re: Sierra GTi Turbo convertion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:09 pm 
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[YLD80Y] wrote:
deralic22 wrote:
thanks dmwdave thats probably a little bit later than i would like and twin scroll too much for me i have a toyota starlet gt think i might try find another ct9


No direct offense intended to you, but I always scratch my head when someone puts a GTi motor into a Sierra, considering that the G13B provides pretty much the opposite of the characteristics you need off road. Turbocharging on top of that only adds to the problem IMO, because a supercharger is better suited to the application.

Anyway, in your situation you could consider a GT17 as an alternative to the CT9. It will run out of puff at the top end, but if you're running above a few thousand RPM offroad then the bigger concern would be the clutch and driveline.


i used to say the same thing , but a lot of these guys run reduction gears in the transfer so when in 4 low they are in the ideal rpm range for the gti engine with a turbo . and to be honest have you ever driven a standard 1.3 litre carburetted sierra brayden , they wouldnt pull the skin off of 2 week old milk . even a standard 1.3 litre efi twin cam engine , or the more popular 1.6 engine with the more low down torque is still a shitload better than what they have from factory.

i am also negating your post because i put my gti engine in my sierra as well :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Sierra GTi Turbo convertion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:27 pm 
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Yep, I agree completely about the standard 1.3 (or even 1L) Sierra motor - completely worthless. Don't get me wrong, the GTi conversion is an improvement, but the 1.6 option (with or without supercharging) seems far more sensible. I've driven a GTi converted Sierra and it was better on the road, but a lot of wasted effort for offroad because it just didn't improve low end torque.

I take your point about reduction gears. Does running at higher RPM in slower off-road situations create overheating issues though?

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 Post subject: Re: Sierra GTi Turbo convertion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:17 am 
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Location: woodburn
i know where your coming from but most of my driving is on road it is my daily driver
but i do go bush but here where i am its mainly mud tracks and long clay hills its not
like i go crawling up rocky tracks and stuff like that so yeah most of the time my right
foot is flat to the floor. I mainly want more top end on the road to keep up with my
mates in their hilux's and cruiser's when we are heading out camping.


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 Post subject: Re: Sierra GTi Turbo convertion
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:58 pm 
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Location: Sydney
I just finished my Sierra with mk3 g13b turbo and it is wicked !!


Chipped ecu and a gt28R on 10psi, the car is a torque monster compared to what it was !! Upgrade x 10. I am also surprised how much low down and linear power it has. It has more power and torque the ENTIRE rev range compared to stock. You won't regret it, makes a g16b feel like a slug.


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 Post subject: Re: Sierra GTi Turbo convertion
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:03 am 
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Location: Sydney
If you are in Sydney and want to check it out pm me and I will be happy to take you for a blast. Be warned you will want to empty your wallet afterwards - every Sierra owner I take for a run says 'holy s**t I have never seen a Sierra move like that !'


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 Post subject: Re: Sierra GTi Turbo convertion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:06 am 
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ok cool you running standard comp? what turbo did you use?


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 Post subject: Re: Sierra GTi Turbo convertion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:56 am 
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deralic22 wrote:
ok cool you running standard comp? what turbo did you use?


Read two posts above. Gt28R. By the sound of it i would guess simple setup with standard compression. Engine will handle 10psi no problems from gt28 without internal mods if fuelling and ignition mapping is right.

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