It is currently Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:36 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Newbie engine questions.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:45 am
Posts: 5
Location: USA
Howdy to all from a total newbie.

I am trying to get information on Suzuki engines for an ancient Austin Sprite frogeye (bugeye) project car that my friend is going to sell. I am leaning towards swapping in a G13b or other G series engine instead of rebuilding the seized/damaged BMC A series engine that is currently out of the car.

Why G engine and what I know:

1. It did come in longitudinal configuration.
2. Light weight and decent output. G13b 100hp/83 ft.lb torque, but 120Kgs with tranny? That would be quite bit lighter than the original, can someone verify the weight with and without tranny? thx
3. Cleaner with EFI.

My questions:
1. G13b has been very popular in engine swap community, but in my case, would say 13BB make more sense with coil pack so no distributor stick out behind the engine? or G15A or G16B for a bit more torque? Assuming both used coilpack. space at premium in frogeyes, see pic below.

2. Do G16B share same outer dimensions with G13b but just taller? and weight the same or less since its SOHC not DOHC.

3. Output potentials, G13b vs G15 or G16 all with minimium mod. Ideally with say 120hps with flat-ish torque. Frogeyes weighted 1500lbs with that cast iron engine, so may be 1450 with Suzuki?

This is the frogeyes's engine bay:
Image
This one with G13b:
Image
Without the distributor, engine could have sat further back to achieve engine behind front axle.
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Newbie engine questions.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:00 am
Posts: 1526
Location: Londoninium
I grew up with sprites, minis and the 'A' series engine.
You will be in race engine territory to match a mild G13 twin cam. It will be un-weildy to drive slowly. Whereas the suzuki engine with management will be a daily.
But what's the purpose of the car?
What value hit are you going to inflict on the originality. I admit they are low end of collectables but are climbing in value.
Costs will be similar between rebuilding the old engine and fitting and getting running the new engine.
Have a look for other G13b conversions in sprites. From memory a fellow stateside has done it and has an informative web blog on it. Bugzuki or sometime like that.
Many are getting decent improvements with the twin cam head on bigger capacity blocks.
I've seen 500hp sprites with turbo rotaries, full aero which are stupidly quick. But there isn't much sprite left. In my opinion they are good up to 200-220 hp then require reengineering.
GTP


Last edited by gtpswift on Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Newbie engine questions.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:45 am
Posts: 5
Location: USA
aiming for fast road, or about say 100-120hp, balanced performance would be welcome. Not looking for a scary horse power monster. Do want it to behave in town.

After driving electric car for the past few years, I find:

1. "smell like real car" doesn't appeal for me anymore, for this project if I would to go ahead, I want an engine at least with EFI and space permits with cat converter.

2. loving the silky smooth, no more lumpy idling etc.,

So I would prefer a stock engine without mod or with minimum mod. 100hp is the magic mark, torquey would be very welcome as I charge up a very curvy mountain road regularly, it raised from 100ft ele to 5000ft ele in 20 miles or so with lots of hairpins.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Newbie engine questions.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:41 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:00 am
Posts: 17515
Location: ACT
toffee wrote:

My questions:
1. G13b has been very popular in engine swap community, but in my case, would say 13BB make more sense with coil pack so no distributor stick out behind the engine? or G15A or G16B for a bit more torque? Assuming both used coilpack. space at premium in frogeyes, see pic below.
2. Do G16B share same outer dimensions with G13b but just taller? and weight the same or less since its SOHC not DOHC.
3. Output potentials, G13b vs G15 or G16 all with minimium mod. Ideally with say 120hps with flat-ish torque. Frogeyes weighted 1500lbs with that cast iron engine, so may be 1450 with Suzuki?


1. Looking at the pics the distributor isn't hard against the firewall, so it's not the limiting factor in engine placement.
2. Roughly, yes. Bellhousing mounting pattern is different between G13 and G16.
3. IMO the G13B has the best potential for your needs.

Given you're in the US, have you considered a Honda engine? Seems like it would be a better supported starting point.

_________________
Suzuki MightyBoy - Three pots and a snail.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Newbie engine questions.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:45 am
Posts: 5
Location: USA
G16b
bore/stroke - 75mm/90mm
Valves - 16
Compression - 9.5
Hp - 96 @
Torque - 97 lb/ft @ 4000rpm
G16 is around 104KG (230lbs) with everything fitted, water & oil & including the rad.

G13b
bore/stroke - 74mm/75.5mm
Valves - 16
Compression - 10.1
Hp - 100 @6,500 rpm
Torque - 83 lb/ft @ 5,000rpm
G13BA 85.558kg. The complete engine as you might expect to be lifting it out (with manifolds, carburetor, air cleaner, alternator, clutch, radiator hoses and oil but no starter motor)

Looked like G13b and G16b are similar weight, but G13b had a bit more power but less torque.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Newbie engine questions.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:00 am
Posts: 1526
Location: Londoninium
Bugzuki!
http://www.ado13.com/dohczuke/dohc.htm

GTP


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Newbie engine questions.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:45 am
Posts: 5
Location: USA
Thanks guys for helping out, you Suzuki bunch sure are friendly. I come to realize G13b probably the best way to go, space shouldn't be an issue after reading Bugzuki, although the weight saving was less than I have thought.

This is G13b in the background, Austin A series engine in front:
Image
This is reverse:
Image

Weight wise:
Quote:
Weights:
948 with the Rivergate rear plate and no flywheel or manifolds: 163
DOHC with an automatic tranny flywheel and no manifolds: 133
Datsun 210 Transmission: 50
Samurai Transmission: 53

Total weight of the Suzuki combo should come in under 200 pounds with ease.

These weights may not be totally acurate but they were all on the same scale so the difference should be valid.


G16b is couple of inches taller than G13b but judging on the overlay pic, it may still work. Same horse power but more torque, but I suspect the long stroke G16b may not rev as freely .... ie not as fun to drive.

On G13b, what's the best way to boost the torque a bit? Longer intake manifold tubes?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Newbie engine questions.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:00 am
Posts: 1664
Location: Adelaide
toffee wrote:

On G13b, what's the best way to boost the torque a bit? Longer intake manifold tubes?


Boost is the best way to increase torque on these engines. Even a well built NA with good compression (over 12:1) will still not make very much torque.

These engines are built to rev, and make power that way, they are suited to light weight chassis, which the Bugeye will be perfect for. Even in their standard form, they are a good thing even when in the 700kg swift chassis.

Cheers
Simon

_________________
IPRA MK3 Gti ~ Mallala 19/11/11 1:23.5915
Sponsored by
Autosport ~ Velo Seats ~ Morpowa Dyno Centre ~ Diamond Concrete Finishers & Polishers


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Newbie engine questions.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:45 am
Posts: 5
Location: USA
700 would be about the same as bugeyes, which weight 1500 or so with Austin engine, with G13b, it will be 30 lbs less, but bigger tires to compliment the extra hp will weight more.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group