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 Post subject: Mk1 GTi with the heart of a Cultus
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:20 am 
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G'day all. Thought I might start a thread on my car. Its a 198* Suzuki Cultus. (only build date i can find on the car is on the ecu and that says 88, who knows about the rest??)

As found.

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It has an interior. Mostly good. Just a few small things needed in here. Dash vent, centre console, door trims.

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8,000rpm? Yeah it likes it up there.

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general pics after I got it home.

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14"x4.5" Suzuki wheels. No idea what they are. Guy I bought it from said they had "AERO COOL" written on the centre caps. They do have Suzuki cast into the back of them.

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Box of pieces.

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Original key!!

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Motivational device. As you can see here it gets a little different. Reverse intake with 45mm tb. Tubular exhaust manifold. MK2 injectors. Thats all that I can see/ remember for now. oh and factory looking a/c. more to come on this later when i pull the engine to change the timing belt and fix some minor oil weeps.

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Under bonnet engine tune guide thingo. (No idea what its called)

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ECU. EPI-002.

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Doing a service and general check over after getting it home.

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New wheels and settling on ride height. Wheels are Sparco NT's. Frony 16x7 7.5kg each, rears 16x8 8kg each. Once tyred rolling diameter will only increase by app. 15mm with only a slight weight increase. hopefully these will help control wheelspin as on the 14's with 175 tyres 1st and 2nd gears are wheelspin with 3rd optional.
Height will be roughly where its at in this pic. Lots of fine tuning will be done in the suspension department. Lucky I know some spring makers so cheap springs and fab work with access to all sorts of workshop goodies.

Yes, yes the wheels are probably to big but whatever. They are the test set.

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Its the 80's!

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Gotta slow down too! Hyundai accent calipers next to stockers. Will be getting later models (250mm) slotted discs at the same time. open to suggestions for the rear drums.

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Build plate if anyone knows what HSX-5 means I'm all ears.

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So as you can tell it isn't your usual Cultus. It also has gas charged KYB shocks all round which appear to be Suzukisport options. All suspension rubbers are extremely stiff and in good condition. If it wasn't for the fact the front left shock is slowly leaking its precious oil all over the place it would be like driving a car with brand new suspension. It is all very stiff and tight.

now the gearbox/ diff.
all below is kinda guess work until i pull the box apart.
now according to the calculator ive been using and reading the grp a homolagation papers it would appear that i have the following ratios. all speeds are about right for what i get and i cant get near the speeds with any other combination.

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Now as i said i may be wrong. (probably) but i just cant get the rpm/ speed relationship near what this lot says. any ideas here are helpful!! It does around 4750rpm in 5th at 100km/h.

Actually first doesn't get that fast I'm fairly certain. Only gets to around 50-55 km/h.

Now does it have a LSD? Maybe. It hasn't done a single spinner skid yet. Any way to tell without ripping the box apart?

As you can tell im just finding out bits about it as i go along. Plans for it is to fix a few things up then take it hillclimbing and do motorkhana type events.

More to come as i get to it.
Steve.

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Last edited by mr.beaker on Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Japanese nugget box
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:06 am 
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Hi Mate,

Thanks for posting! I've been wanting to hear more about this car for a while. :wink: A few other people I know have been talking about this as well...
mr.beaker wrote:
Under bonnet engine tune guide thingo. (No idea what its called)
Underbonnet placard! It closely resembles my Mk.3 Cultus one but yours is asking for different spark plugs... Dunno why though. Maybe compression is different (?) Mine is 11.5:1 and around 240 psi per cylinder so specifies the colder NGK BPR7ES or Nippon Denso W22EPR-U.
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Most of the text is fairly easy to figure out. But the one thing that stumped me when I got mine was what they were saying needed to happen at 48,000 kms! So I contacted a Redline member who I knew lived in Japan (out of the blue) and he was nice enough to decipher it for me... it says 'Air filter change'! 8)

Hope that helps in some small way. :)

Love the car!

Cheers,

Drew

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 Post subject: Re: Japanese nugget box
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:14 am 
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Location: Central Coast
Quote:
It does around 4750rpm in 5th at 100km/h.

Whoa - that is some seriously low gearing. Nearly 5k to do 100 km/h? I know my Mk1 sits just over 4K rpm at 115 km/h, tyre size is very close to standard and definitely a GTi box.

And yeah, you're in for a world of pain with wheels that size. Good luck though... :) Really looking forward to seeing how it scrubs up.


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 Post subject: Re: Japanese nugget box
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:51 pm 
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IMO those wheels are too big and too wide for such a lightweight car. The issue you have with wheelspin is more likely related to having cheap, old, crappy tyres and worn out suspension. If you want to improve handling and grip then smaller wheels with sticky tyres are the way to go.

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 Post subject: Re: Japanese nugget box
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:08 pm 
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Won't a larger rolling diameter effectively raise the gearing ratio reducing torque and acceleration and as a consequence wheel spin? As well as the inertia slowing acceleration?

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 Post subject: Re: Japanese nugget box
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:02 pm 
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Yes it does all that but of far more importance is to have maximum rubber conformity on the bitumen, that is you need a soft tread compound. Those tyres which were causing all the wheel spin looked to be from the 1980's, would have the conformity/compound/rubber hardness of bakerlite.
One other thing relating to above is the need to maximise tread footprint or contact area. Wide tyres do this by making the contact patch wider but dont forget to make the contact patch longer too. To do this you would need to move away from the large diameter wheels and the low profile tyres and go with a small diameter wheel with say a 60 series tyre.

I recon this car would look hot with a set of 13in x 6in old style alloys 8)


VOLKERbALL-GTi wrote:
Won't a larger rolling diameter effectively raise the gearing ratio reducing torque and acceleration and as a consequence wheel spin? As well as the inertia slowing acceleration?


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 Post subject: Re: Japanese nugget box
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:34 pm 
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DrelvisGTi wrote:
Hi Mate,
Most of the text is fairly easy to figure out. But the one thing that stumped me when I got mine was what they were saying needed to happen at 48,000 kms! So I contacted a Redline member who I knew lived in Japan (out of the blue) and he was nice enough to decipher it for me... it says 'Air filter change'! 8)

Hope that helps in some small way. :)

Love the car!

Cheers,

Drew


Ah cheers was wondering what was needed to be replaced then.

rattlyswift wrote:
Quote:
It does around 4750rpm in 5th at 100km/h.

Whoa - that is some seriously low gearing. Nearly 5k to do 100 km/h? I know my Mk1 sits just over 4K rpm at 115 km/h, tyre size is very close to standard and definitely a GTi box.



Yep. Absolute pain in the arse on the highway but, once up into the hills it should be great!

[YLD80Y] wrote:
IMO those wheels are too big and too wide for such a lightweight car. The issue you have with wheelspin is more likely related to having cheap, old, crappy tyres and worn out suspension. If you want to improve handling and grip then smaller wheels with sticky tyres are the way to go.


Did you read my post?

Yes, yes the wheels are probably to big but whatever. They are the test set.
Yes, yes the wheels are probably to big but whatever. They are the test set.
Yes, yes the wheels are probably to big but whatever. They are the test set.

I'm constantly on the hunt for some new wheels. Currently i have these, the ones that came on them and a set of stock wheels. Right now other things are priority number one like brakes and suspension.

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 Post subject: Re: Japanese nugget box
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:35 pm 
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Personally I like the big rims, not sure they're practicle but I like them :D If you feel the need for a change I do have a nice set of 15" Auscars in my shed :wink:

I'm looking forward to seeing where this build ends up. It should be a great weekend warrior :)

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 Post subject: Re: Japanese nugget box
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:20 pm 
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I like them too. It's probably a bit of a throwback to this hunk-a-junk I used to have when I was 17. Still like the dumped on over sized wheels look, just isn't practical for fast and fun!

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17x7.5 with 205/40's all round with a slight height reduction. BTW these never, ever scrubbed for some reason. Only had 80ish mm clearance underneath in the middle, scraped on everything it went over.

Man, that makes me feel old. 10 years ago. :( But, I did find this photo while looking for that. These were much fun!

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Anyway did some more on this on the weekend. Update later when more sober.

On the wheels thing I did nearly grab a set of SSR MKIII's in 13 x 7 a few weeks ago but stupid offset i couldn't work with. Most the old small wheels are more RWD, low offset style which makes it hard to find something nice.

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 Post subject: Re: Japanese nugget box
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:03 pm 
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Nice score.
Look forward to seeing more.
:D

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 Post subject: Re: Japanese nugget box
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:10 pm 
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A mate of mine fitted 16x7 on his mk 1 and it looked good. it did have pumped guards and stiff suspension.

I would recommend some guard flares if you wanted to go big or fit up some 15's

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 Post subject: Re: Japanese nugget box
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:03 pm 
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Flares would require wider wheels!! They only stick out 10mm front and back. Camber will fix the front and the rears will be fine enough.

So I attacked my parts car over the weekend (another MK1 GTi) and stole its brakes and suspension and chucked it all in the nugget box. Now time to send my KYBs off to get rebuilt.

I have decided not to worry about the accent calipers as they dont seem to be enough of a upgrade to warrant it all. So if anyone in adelaide wants them will swap for a six pack of Sparkling Ale or an oil cap for a G13b as mine decided life was to hard and blew itself apart while I was driving around nice and gently on night. Cost me a massive(!) $44 from u-steal-it.

Plans now are some tires for the 16's and boot around a heap over my christmas break then most likely stick it into storage if i dont go flying off the road somewhere in the hills. Well either that or attack the engine and get some more power outta it with lots of porting, e85 and quads, or slap a turbo on it if i decide that i'm an idiot. Problem i am seeing with e85 is I only get 200kms to a tank at the moment just cruising around with the occasional booting. my worst has been only 130kms to a tank. With the extra fuel for e85 taken into account that would come down to about 100kms. That is not very far.

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 Post subject: Re: Japanese nugget box
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:02 pm 
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How have you been driving the nugget box around? Let me rephrase that question.....how the hell did you get it rego for it???


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 Post subject: Re: Japanese nugget box
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:59 pm 
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magic. Though I've found something somewhere deep within the servicesa website that has given me hope. just need to get going on it and see if it somehow works or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Japanese nugget box
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:49 am 
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Where in Adelaide are you? Am interested in the calipers.

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 Post subject: Re: Japanese nugget box
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:30 pm 
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Posts: 187
Hi,

Your car is mk1 ph2 so it is only produced between Oct '87-88 before full model change.
This car has 110ps instead of 97ps. You will find that cam belt is 25mm, inlet manifold is similar to Cultus Gti but different, exhaust is stainless steel 4-1 factory spec and slight changes to the gearbox internal so you have very rare beast here!

Also, your cylinder head has better radius inside to give port and polished effect compares to mk1 Gti.....I have a service manual for mk1 ph2 car and this is only 2nd car I have seen!

All of Japanese writing things tell you just it is build to 1978 Exhaust gas reg spec with idel speed and so on.

Steel wheels are the std Cultus gti wheels and as of this car, Cultus became 14" std.

There are so many difference between normal mk1 ph1.


Cheers
Atchi


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 Post subject: Re: Japanese nugget box
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:49 am 
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Posts: 187
Hi,

I checked said book.
Now throttle bore is increased as well from 41 to 45mm.
Inlet bore is bigger, 40mm instead of 32mm. Also camshafts spec change, injector is now 260 instead of 160cc/min.. and dizzy timing change, thicker driveshafts, bigger intermediate shaft, thicker driveshafts,thicker coil springs, thicker ARBs and change of shock absorber spec... so a lot of changes!

You are one lucky man!
I want that inlet manifold!

Oh well it will be too much for delivery charge...

Suzuki Sports did LSD transmission as option but they didn't do 4.4:1. They did 4.105: and 3.789:1 both of them with following gear ratios for Group-A spec.
1st 3.076
2nd 2.294
3rd 1.761
4th 1.392
5th 1.161

Cheers
Atchi

p.s. If you have LSD, you will not see cross pin in the diff when you take out inner pot joint!


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 Post subject: Re: Japanese nugget box
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:50 pm 
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miniswift wrote:
Hi,


Mate you're a legend!

Quote:
Your car is mk1 ph2 so it is only produced between Oct '87-88 before full model change.


My ECU is stamped 88/10. Still haven't found any other dates yet, so going by this it would be one of the very last ones they made.

Quote:
This car has 110ps instead of 97ps. You will find that cam belt is 25mm, inlet manifold is similar to Cultus Gti but different, exhaust is stainless steel 4-1 factory spec and slight changes to the gearbox internal so you have very rare beast here!

Also, your cylinder head has better radius inside to give port and polished effect compares to mk1 Gti.....I have a service manual for mk1 ph2 car and this is only 2nd car I have seen!


Any chance of getting a copy of this? Don't care if its paper or email or carved into stone, happy to pay for your trouble (except if its carved in stone) PM me.

Quote:
All of Japanese writing things tell you just it is build to 1978 Exhaust gas reg spec with idel speed and so on.

Steel wheels are the std Cultus gti wheels and as of this car, Cultus became 14" std.

There are so many difference between normal mk1 ph1.


Any ideas about the 14's that came on it?

miniswift wrote:
Hi,

I checked said book.
Now throttle bore is increased as well from 41 to 45mm.
Inlet bore is bigger, 40mm instead of 32mm. Also camshafts spec change, injector is now 260 instead of 160cc/min.. and dizzy timing change, thicker driveshafts, bigger intermediate shaft, thicker driveshafts,thicker coil springs, thicker ARBs and change of shock absorber spec... so a lot of changes!


Sweet!

Quote:
Suzuki Sports did LSD transmission as option but they didn't do 4.4:1. They did 4.105: and 3.789:1 both of them with following gear ratios for Group-A spec.
1st 3.076
2nd 2.294
3rd 1.761
4th 1.392
5th 1.161

Cheers
Atchi

p.s. If you have LSD, you will not see cross pin in the diff when you take out inner pot joint!


Yeah I think I was drunk when I worked out the ratios. Will redo soon!

While your here do you have any contact emails for anyone from Suzuki Japan? Or know how to get into contact with them without knowing any Japanese? I need to get something official from Suzuki stating what the car is and so on for potential rego purposes, as using trade plates sucks.

Again thanks!!

Well in other news looks like I may have scored some bike throttles, so IF I can get them what size am I looking for?

So IF I get them and IF they are the right size the plan is: quads, headwork, compression, exhaust, ecu, injectors, E85 and lots of RPM. Then if I've done all that I may as well strip the inside, lexan windows and such. we shall see what happens.

Now, I need an exhaust. the stock one rusted out a big hole and most the inside. Pipes were falling out of it! I have dodged something up that is terrible. So I need a new exhaust. What size should I be getting keeping in mind the above mods will most likely happen? I was thinking a 2.25" mandrel but, with the above mods would it be better to go bigger? I want to do it once do it right kinda deal as the above will happen anyway. thoughts?

Cheers.
Steve.

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 Post subject: Re: Japanese nugget box
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:07 am 
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Posts: 187
Hi,

Service manual is in Japanese if you can read it, I will scan it in for you.
I have mk1 Gti parts catalogue and it should have chassis number info for mk1 ph2 Gti info.
I did contact Suzuki Sports before but they didn't keep any info so I couldn't confirm my mate Jerry's AF34S X-rally car.

I can scan in 14" steel wheel info and translate it for you.

I think going 2.25" will be too big. You want either 1.75" or 2" max. For street NA use, I will go for 1.75" as it will be OK for up to 180BHP according to my engine builder mate.

Cheers
Atchi


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 Post subject: Re: Japanese nugget box
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:54 pm 
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miniswift wrote:
Hi,

Service manual is in Japanese if you can read it, I will scan it in for you.
I have mk1 Gti parts catalogue and it should have chassis number info for mk1 ph2 Gti info.
I did contact Suzuki Sports before but they didn't keep any info so I couldn't confirm my mate Jerry's AF34S X-rally car.

I can scan in 14" steel wheel info and translate it for you.

I think going 2.25" will be too big. You want either 1.75" or 2" max. For street NA use, I will go for 1.75" as it will be OK for up to 180BHP according to my engine builder mate.

Cheers
Atchi


hi,

I can't read Japanese but maybe its time to learn, or try find someone to translate it for me more likely. cheers for the help so far!

It's all on hold for a bit as I have no job right now so no money to throw on this. Hopefully new job starts next week then back into it. So I have been pulling stuff out the engine bay to clean it all up and repaint all the chrome stuff on the outside.

Some random pics I took in the engine bay. Will be kinda apart for a few more days so any pic requests may be done.

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What is A? B I have worked out as an idle control for the A/C. B I still have no idea.

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See that funky looking device under the cable?

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This is it. Wound all in nothing happens. Wind it out a its a throttle stopper/ slower thingo. Slows down the declaration when off pedal so engine stays up in the revs when you lift off for gear changes. Think of it as some sorta anti-lag type device engine the gearbox happy for fast changes.

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Intake manifold part number: 09225.

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Not much interesting there really.

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