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 Post subject: Re: ECU chip or standalone on a 1300 NA high compression
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:02 pm 
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I've always marked the clutch cover as well as the flywheel. I guess potentially you could end up needing to replace a clutch cover but I don't remember ever doing one outside of an engine refresh.


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 Post subject: Re: ECU chip or standalone on a 1300 NA high compression
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:46 am 
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Hi Sam. I have a centreforce clutch and it has been balanced from the factory as it has a balance weight on it....


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 Post subject: Re: ECU chip or standalone on a 1300 NA high compression
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:52 pm 
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Hi Mate,

swift12 wrote:
Mine will be 12:1 or there abouts. Genuine cultus manifold...2.25" exhaust. So the F6 would be a good starting point?
Regards Glenn.
Firstly, I'm no Mechanic. Rather I'm just a Sparky who happened upon one (or two) of the few Cultus GTi cars that exist in Australia. Plus I like to read a lot and know a fair bit Cultus-wise! Therefore I am not really able to answer your question regarding suitability of OEM ECU's with aftermarket pistons. Cultus is 11.5:1 compression with cams that have a 0.5mm increase in lift... sometimes! Not all of the variants have higher lift cams apparently.

I'm curious though. Does your car have a 4-wire Oxygen sensor? And is there a spare plug sticking out of your wiring loom where the knock sensor 'should' be? No idea what colours the wires would be without me going out to the workshop to look at my Mk.3 on this cold, cold rainy night. :lol: The knock sensor from memory is wired to ECU terminal A15 (which is shown as blank in the Suzuki Swift GTi workshop manual).

Cheers,

Drew

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 Post subject: Re: ECU chip or standalone on a 1300 NA high compression
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:10 pm 
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So in theory you should be able to balance the crank, pulley and flywheel and then bolt up the clutch cover and test whether it's still balanced. It would be interesting to see.


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 Post subject: Re: ECU chip or standalone on a 1300 NA high compression
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:08 pm 
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Drew it's a four wire. I'd have to look tomorrow.
Sam...it should balance but I'll ask them when I get it done if that's worth checking. What about the front pulley? Lose the harmonic balancer or not? That thing is bloody heavy.


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 Post subject: Re: ECU chip or standalone on a 1300 NA high compression
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:42 pm 
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swift12 wrote:
Lose the harmonic balancer or not? That thing is bloody heavy.
There was a fair bit of discussion about this a few years ago. The fact remains however that the Mk.1 GTi's had no torsional damper at all while the MK.2-3 models did. Reasons why are unclear. There are a few unopened Mk.1 GTi engines out there that have gone 400K kms plus without issues so I wouldn't think it would be a major problem.

Your call. :wink:

Cheers,

Drew

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 Post subject: Re: ECU chip or standalone on a 1300 NA high compression
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:51 pm 
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Keep the balancer. Mk1 gti didnt have such a large/heavy balancer, but rpm limit was set at 6600rpm roughly compared to 7600 rpm on a mk2/3. Reducing the balancer dramatically will create more harmonic vibration. A street car you probably wouldn't notice but in a tack car sitting between 4500-8500rpm. you want to retain the original harmonic balancer to absorb the harmonics somewhat.

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 Post subject: Re: ECU chip or standalone on a 1300 NA high compression
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:35 pm 
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I run a lightweight single under pulley and we don't seem to have any issue with harmonics.

My understanding of the theory is that a fully balanced 4 cylinder engine with a nice strong crank won't experience issues with harmonics until around 9500 rpm. I wouldn't expect you to have any issue with a rev limit around 8,000, I have my limit set at 7900.

If you want to run above 9,000 then you should use a balancer ( dampener, they don't really balance anything ) but the production item is unlikely to be what you need. There are so many variables that will impact the level of harmonics that it becomes a very complex subject. I guess that's why very few people attempt to build 10,000 rpm engines.

Not sure how you'd get on turning down the production double pulley/dampener. From memory it's a bonded item with hard rubber in the middle so it might not be possible. I'm guessing it should be possible to find a generic pulley, bore it to suit and machine a key way.


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 Post subject: Re: ECU chip or standalone on a 1300 NA high compression
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:09 pm 
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The other thing that I forgot to mention is that my pulley is underdriven by about 15%. That's probably a bigger factor than the weight.


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 Post subject: Re: ECU chip or standalone on a 1300 NA high compression
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:41 pm 
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hi sam does the under drive pulley affect your cooling much


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 Post subject: Re: ECU chip or standalone on a 1300 NA high compression
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:28 am 
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No issues with cooling but we do run a larger than standard radiator and an oil cooler.


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 Post subject: Re: ECU chip or standalone on a 1300 NA high compression
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:05 am 
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I have a feeling that 3tech used to sell single underdrive pulleys.


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 Post subject: Re: ECU chip or standalone on a 1300 NA high compression
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:28 am 
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Glenn, under driving the water pump actually helps improve coolant circulation at high rpm as it prevents cavitation, also under driving the alternator prevents over charging of your battery and lessens the workload of the voltage regulator, personally an under drive crank pulley is essential on our cars when racing.

Mike has done a couple of production runs of pulleys over the years but it's been quite a while since his last run, worth asking him as there aren't many other options nowadays.


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 Post subject: Re: ECU chip or standalone on a 1300 NA high compression
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:24 pm 
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If you need numbers to get him to do a run of pulleys I'd certainly buy a spare.


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 Post subject: Re: ECU chip or standalone on a 1300 NA high compression
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:20 pm 
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Ok guys. thanks for that. I'll ask him if he does them. I'll let you know Sam.


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 Post subject: Re: ECU chip or standalone on a 1300 NA high compression
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:59 am 
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Suzitech do under-drive aluminium pulleys (unless you feel like spending some time on the lathe) but their website is currently "Under Construction" which is where I go to dream.

For a small performance engine, again after much reading and debating by people, I figured that the less rotational weight an engine carries the better. Obviously some is needed to keep the engine turning over, however if some can be lost directly off the crank, then it should translate into more usable torque/hp/whatever for the car. Will also affect engine braking and improve throttle response.

Clearly a street car is different, you do not want it to be on the verge of stalling, due to less weight keeping the engine going for drivability reasons. It also sounds like personal preference also.

A lightened flywheel along with a lighter pulley surely would be beneficial to a race car? Even 1kg lost would be a benefit?
Happy to hear opinions as I have no real world experience with this as yet.

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 Post subject: Re: ECU chip or standalone on a 1300 NA high compression
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:46 am 
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Hi Howsie. I have a lathe but I'd be somewhat cautious about trying to make my own pulley as I don't think I have the necessary skills to pull it off. I have several 6061 billets at home once bought for another project. I may try to make one just to see if I can do it. I also have a mill with a rotary table. But..... [-X I'd hate to blow my motor up because I screw up this part. If anyone has the measurements of a single under drive pulley let me know....I might have a crack. I have asked Three tech but they are away until the 7th. Suzukird has them but after all the feedback I don't feel like venturing there.


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 Post subject: Re: ECU chip or standalone on a 1300 NA high compression
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:44 am 
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Is that bad feedback about product quality or support? - Suzukird. As I am sure you know, people love to complain about the smallest thing on the internet, yet all the good stuff goes unappreciated.

I don't think you would have an issue with one
http://www.pt2w.com/srd/index.php?main_ ... ek7b3eifj0

And observation of the engine up to redline should show if it is unbalanced, or if you know somewhere it could be balanced?
It is something I'll get for my car eventually as mine is heavy, with no balancing like the Mk2/3 ones, and I do not have air con, or ever will so the extra v groove is a waste.

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 Post subject: Re: ECU chip or standalone on a 1300 NA high compression
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:59 pm 
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I also have a lathe and like you I don't fancy trying to cut one from a billet. I guess it's really a job for a cnc lathe. I suppose that's another option, seeing what a local cnc machine shop would charge to make a small run of them. Maybe wait for 3Tech first.


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 Post subject: Re: ECU chip or standalone on a 1300 NA high compression
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:19 am 
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I have sent mike a q. He will be back on the 7th. I'll let you know. [-o<


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