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 Post subject: Gear boxes
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:32 pm 
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What are the differences between a G13A and G13B gearboxes?

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 Post subject: Re: Gear boxes
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:38 pm 
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You mean first generation 84-88 compared to 2nd generation 1989 onwards?

Everything is different, the crownwheel on the 3.52 models is the same and there might be one bearing, everything else is different.


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 Post subject: Re: Gear boxes
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:24 am 
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Dattman wrote:
You mean first generation 84-88 compared to 2nd generation 1989 onwards?

Everything is different, the crownwheel on the 3.52 models is the same and there might be one bearing, everything else is different.
Having previously dealt with both, I'm somewhat concerned how much I have forgotten.
I do recall they both have identical bolt on patterns?
That said, I know the drive shafts are larger in the GTi & won't fit in the standard gearbox, so I guess that pretty much says it all?

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 Post subject: Re: Gear boxes
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:48 am 
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Hang on, are you asking about the difference between a G13A and G13B, or G13BA and G13B?

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 Post subject: Re: Gear boxes
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:30 pm 
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[YLD80Y] wrote:
Hang on, are you asking about the difference between a G13A and G13B, or G13BA and G13B?
OMG, are you serious? There's a difference between all three? Of course, why wouldn't there be?
Anyways, to cut a long story short, I have a 1990 GTi & was considering acquiring an AWD setup from the UK.
The vehicle/s I've looked at are 1996 & 2000 respectively & both appear to have a G13A engine.
Given the vehicle manufacturing dates, I'd suggest they COULD be a G13AB; however, I believe the front drive shafts are the standard type due to the engine configuration.
Am still doing my homework, so lots to check up on!

Appreciate any 'constructive' criticism.

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 Post subject: Re: Gear boxes
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:01 pm 
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If it's the awd models like the Subaru justly, then it has more in common with a cino.
Gti inner cv will fit a cino box and vice versa, it's the hub splines that are larger on gti and 1.6 (so your shafts have to match your hubs)
Try pm'ing GTP, he had an awd just and would know first hand about compatibility.
Easiest way to classify would be by chassis, G13A came in SA swifts, G13B/G13BA came in SF swifts.
I could fill a page with nuances of gearboxes and engine types, but that info should keep it simple enough to be useful


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 Post subject: Re: Gear boxes
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:28 pm 
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Bewitched Gti wrote:
If it's the awd models like the Subaru justly, then it has more in common with a cino.
Gti inner cv will fit a cino box and vice versa, it's the hub splines that are larger on gti and 1.6 (so your shafts have to match your hubs)
Try pm'ing GTP, he had an awd just and would know first hand about compatibility.
Easiest way to classify would be by chassis, G13A came in SA swifts, G13B/G13BA came in SF swifts.
I could fill a page with nuances of gearboxes and engine types, but that info should keep it simple enough to be useful
Thought as much, given the pics I've seen.
Yes, the hubs would be an issue, but thanks for confirming.
Was there ever an actual GTi AWD, or are they all mods?
Also, did you mean 'gtpswift'?

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 Post subject: Re: Gear boxes
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:41 pm 
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mospeada11 wrote:
Was there ever an actual GTi AWD, or are they all mods?


Cultus, yes.

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 Post subject: Re: Gear boxes
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:50 am 
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As far as I can determine.
G13B 8 valve 1.3 AWD gearboxes of Euro spec, out of the hungary plant have 1600 size output splines on the gearbox end. the hub ends match the Cino/Barina smaller ones found in oz. A GTi front knuckle will allow 1600 driveshafts to fit if you want GTi brakes and heavier driveshafts.
The steering arm is angled differently on the AWD 8v hub and GTi hub resulting in slightly, though in my opinion improved bump characteristics when GTi are used on a low AWD with 1600 shafts.
Remember if you get stuff sent from Europe ensure they include the front firewall brackets for the steering rack and the rear toe arms, the AWD ones are 10mm shorter than Local delivered GTi or cino/barina ones. Also demand they send the whole rear floor from rear panel to forward of the rear seat wells. and possibly even the rear turrets and don't forget the foam spare wheel chocks, and erar inner plastics which are different.
I didn't think there ever was a AWD GTi. the cultus, specification level of a Japanese swift really was a single cam 16V 1.3 AWD?
Never seen a twin cam head on a factory car but am happy to be corrected.
GTP


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 Post subject: Re: Gear boxes
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:37 am 
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gtpswift wrote:
I didn't think there ever was a AWD GTi. the cultus, specification level of a Japanese swift really was a single cam 16V 1.3 AWD?
Never seen a twin cam head on a factory car but am happy to be corrected.
GTP


Image

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 Post subject: Re: Gear boxes
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:55 pm 
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That's fantastic, pity I can't read Japanese, but then I get the gist.
Many thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Gear boxes
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:57 pm 
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gtpswift wrote:
As far as I can determine.
G13B 8 valve 1.3 AWD gearboxes of Euro spec, out of the hungary plant have 1600 size output splines on the gearbox end. the hub ends match the Cino/Barina smaller ones found in oz. A GTi front knuckle will allow 1600 driveshafts to fit if you want GTi brakes and heavier driveshafts.
The steering arm is angled differently on the AWD 8v hub and GTi hub resulting in slightly, though in my opinion improved bump characteristics when GTi are used on a low AWD with 1600 shafts.
Remember if you get stuff sent from Europe ensure they include the front firewall brackets for the steering rack and the rear toe arms, the AWD ones are 10mm shorter than Local delivered GTi or cino/barina ones. Also demand they send the whole rear floor from rear panel to forward of the rear seat wells. and possibly even the rear turrets and don't forget the foam spare wheel chocks, and erar inner plastics which are different.
GTP
So would I be correct in assuming from this that, should I obtain a whole AWD Justy, the 1600 sedan AWD gearbox would suit?

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 Post subject: Re: Gear boxes
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:43 am 
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Not sure the 1600 gearbox bolts up directly to the 1300, something to do with the top bell housing bolts needing relocating/modding.
But apparently its not to hard and commonly done.
GTP


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 Post subject: Re: Gear boxes
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:13 am 
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Hi,

G13A Justy gearbox bell housing will fit Gti engine but 1600 G16 engine bell housing won't fit G13B.
G16 AWD Saloon gearbox has longer ratio and I have scrapped 2 of them 2 years ago. G16 gearbox uses hydro clutch slave cylinder instead cable setup. So I have kept hydro arms and bought a new slave cylinder just in case I want to go wet with cheap setup.

I have 2 Justy gearboxes as a spare and I'm supposed to be getting rear floor pan and rear hubs with driveshafts and so on.

If I can be of any help let me know as I have all of service manual and parts catalogue for both G16 and G13 AWD thanks to Madzuki.

Cheers
Atchi


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 Post subject: Re: Gear boxes
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:21 am 
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Cultus GTi AWD box also has a different final drive to the SOHC AWD cars


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 Post subject: Re: Gear boxes
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:11 am 
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This was the response I received from Vehicle Standards in Queensland:

This type of modification will not fit under the National Code of Practice VSB14.
You may want to consult with an engineer and have a proposal logged with Vehicle standards with a full engineers report with all the effected Australian Design Rules, how the work is intended to be performed and F1854 modification application form.
If this proposal is accepted in Qld the other states may not accept it for the purpose of registration.
This is not an approval in any way but letting you know the door is not total shut.

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 Post subject: Re: Gear boxes
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:20 am 
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Is it not easier to import Justy?
All you need is then transfer Gti stuff onto it.


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 Post subject: Re: Gear boxes
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:35 pm 
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Lol in that case, buy GTP's as it's already an awd imported justy..
Btw yes awd GTi models existed, SK4WD had one here in Perth..
With the 1.6 to 1.3 block, the bell housing top bolts fit (but are larger diameter on G16) it's the lower two bolts on bellhousing that don't match, which can be altered with a adaptor plate.


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 Post subject: Re: Gear boxes
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:26 pm 
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miniswift wrote:
Is it not easier to import Justy?
All you need is then transfer Gti stuff onto it.
Not that simple I'm afraid.
Justy has small drive shafts like in a G13A & the Justy gearbox won't take the GTi drive shafts.
It would appear that adapting the G16 AWD is not an option neither.
So yes, it would be far easier to simply import a Justy!

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 Post subject: Re: Gear boxes
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:23 am 
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Justy will take 1600 driveshaft's with GTi hubs. GTi inner CV spline is too small
Importing cars into Australia for legal registration is difficult and costly if you haven't lived OS and owned and used the car for a year and satisfied the other criteria as I did.
GTP


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