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 Post subject: Thoughts and opinions?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:27 pm 
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Last edited by CVMotorsport on Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts and opinions?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:16 pm 
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Location: Londoninium
Potentially the best strut brace ive seen. but still not convinced its needed on a swift though.
where did the photos go?

GTP


Last edited by gtpswift on Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts and opinions?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:58 pm 
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Location: penriff
how are the shoulder straps mounted on those harnesses?

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts and opinions?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:45 pm 
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Location: Adelaide
As the engine mounts are attached to the front quarter rails the flex in the chassis allows movement over bumps and hard cornering with the stress off the engine weight bouncing around.
This brace locks in the front chassis rails creating a strong section supporting weight. As well as supporting the top strut towers and engine dampener.
Unbelievable difference even without my lower 4 point control arm brace on.

The shoulder mounts are currently fixed to the new fabricated seat mounts. A steel plate stronger than any standard fixing point in the car. They will be mounted to a floor brace later in the near future.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts and opinions?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:49 pm 
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4 point harnesses on reclining seats? top straps pulling straight to the floor? :shock: certainly can't do either of those two things here in NZ, together they put a huge stress on the reclining mechanism in an accident.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts and opinions?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:05 pm 
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Location: Brisbane
Go to CAMS Manual & check out General Requirements

They have a diagram of acceptable angles of straps & fixing requirements

I assume you are trying to keep rear seats usable

You are unfortunately compromising your safty & risking potential physical trauma in an accident


Last edited by JasStv on Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts and opinions?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:07 pm 
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Location: Noosa
You will get some wicked spine compression in a crash. Should be Mounted as horizontal as possible. Cars looking good though Mate.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts and opinions?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:05 am 
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:? Looks like life in a wheel chair waiting to happen!
Although you might be lucky enough to submarine in the seat when it collapses, I'd hate to be your knees if it does happen though.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts and opinions?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:14 pm 
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Location: Adelaide
Harness are not currently being used till further work is done.
Standard seat belts are still mounted and used.
Half cage is in the design stage.
Harnesses are were installed for photos only to get ideas for further work.
Rear seats will be removed shortly.
Car still needs tuning since turbo install.
Been mainly focused on handling upgrades.
Only starting to look at the next steps. Brake upgrades, tuning ect.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts and opinions?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:13 pm 
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Location: Londoninium
CVMotorsport wrote:
Only starting to look at the next steps. Brake upgrades, tuning ect.


PM Moyle19 on here for brake upgrade and hew is local.

GTP


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts and opinions?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:06 am 
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I doubt the forward braces on the strut brace are doing anything. There's only thin metal below them holding up the guards. Better off bracing back to the firewall.

I'm not keen on the way the brace is welded to an inverted u on the strut top. That style is not very rigid and can flex. You could fix it with some gussets to stiffen the flat bar.

Cant see how the brace shown is an alternative to underbody bracing. Underbody is direct onto the suspension components.

Its well documented about belts and spinal compression. Do a google search.

Engine bay looks nice and clean.

Good luck

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts and opinions?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:15 am 
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Is it a street or a track car or both?
If you are deleting your rear seat i would probably use a non reclining seat and at least wider seatbelts mounted the way discribed above.

But the rest of it looks nice..
Nice turbo setup in general.
Have you got a full speclist?

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts and opinions?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:07 pm 
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racer5 wrote:
I'm not keen on the way the brace is welded to an inverted u on the strut top. That style is not very rigid and can flex. You could fix it with some gussets to stiffen the flat bar.


I had the exact same thoughts. The design defeats the purpose of a strut brace.
If you look at well-designed braces (Cusco, etc) they use gussets to prevent lateral deflection under load, rather than absorb it.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts and opinions?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:54 pm 
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Well for starters if you know anything about bracing then you would know that using an aluminium brace is pointless as the rail itself flexes with minimal pressure applied. No point having gussets on the mounts if the rail is just going to bend.
Aluminium braces are designed to look appealing not to work

And second the 'u' mounts are a lot stronger than you think. As the 'u' section is angled forward on the mounting rings which make the upright 3mm thick steel as stron as 8mm steel plate as well as the top of the 'u' section is angled downwards from centre.
If some one can draw a diagram as to how that aluminium brace is meant to work that would be great. Because a steel brace will always reduce flex more than aluminium as aluminium is a soft media and doesn't like to be stressed. Along with being aluminium I would love to know how a brace with a pivot point between the mount and rail is meant to oppose the forces as it still allows movement

Also the top front brace wasn't a substitute for the lower control arm brace. The lower control arm brace was removed and put back on for testing flex using various methods of testing including drive test, test via measurement under load, strength testing and pressure testing


Last edited by CVMotorsport on Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts and opinions?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:07 pm 
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Well you did ask for thoughts and opinions so people are giving them...

CVMotorsport wrote:
The rails running forward are sloped downwards from the main rail applying pressure with upwards movement of the front chassis rails which do have a lot of flex as the engine weight wants to bounces over bumps.

That is a nonsense statement, how can you possibly control vertical flex when your bracing element has no triangulation in the vertical plane :roll:

The fact is that top brace is a great engine steady and yes it might help stiffen up a road car a little but for a properly caged race car will make little difference, the 1mm of flex you might prevent is nothing compared to the 10mm of squish in a OEM topmount, the strut towers are so close to the firewall there really isn't that much flexing of the towers, bottom brace and LCA's is where all the action is.

I generally don't comment on things unless I have first hand experience so I'm happy to be proved otherwise with some creditable FEA.


Last edited by Dattman on Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts and opinions?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:06 pm 
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Location: newcastle
I'm just sitting back ..... Watching

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts and opinions?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:17 pm 
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:lol:

Don't get me wrong, it's a good engine steady and it will help with axle tramp, it just won't help with cornering, thats what the lower brace is for.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts and opinions?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:29 pm 
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Location: Wollongong-NSW
CVMotorsport wrote:
Well for starters if you know anything about bracing then you would know that using an aluminium brace is pointless as the rail itself flexes with minimal pressure applied.

And second the 'u' mounts are a lot stronger than you think. As the 'u' section is angled forward on the mounting rings which make the upright 3mm thick steel as stron as 8mm steel plate as well as the top of the 'u' section is angled downwards from centre. The rails runing forward to the guards are not just fixed to the top two bolts on each side. The have multiple fixings bolted from top and sides. The rails running forward are sloped downwards from the main rail applying pressure with upwards movement of the front chassis rails which do have a lot of flex as the engine weight wants to bounces over bumps.

Yes the seats are also temporary the are getting replaced with fixed back seats in a few weeks and harnesses mounted to a half cage. Car is currently steet car but getting converted to race.

If some one can draw a diagram as to how that aluminium brace is meant to work that would be great. Because a steel brace will always reduce flex more than aluminium as aluminium is a soft media and doesn't like to be stressed. Along with being aluminium I would love to know how a brace with a pivot point between the mount and rail is meant to oppose the forces as it still allows movement in the strut and tower.

Also the top front brace wasn't a substitute for the lower control arm brace. The lower control arm brace was removed and put back on for testing flex using various methods of testing including drive test, test via measurement under load, strength testing and pressure testing.

Mechanical engineering and fabrication is what I do for a living.



Due to arrogance of your post I cant be ass'd going any further with this.

I wouldn't tell anyone "mech eng and fab is what I do for a living".

It really shows your lack of respect for the other person.

If you think your ("I'm a mech eng" and " if you know anything about bracing") comments validates your argument. It does the opposite.

You market yourself as " specialising in motorsport fabrication and bracing"

Looks to me like you had a hair brain idea while while you had a mig in your hand and you came up with this brace.

For now you should just reverse engineer braces from other people.

Best way forward is to apologise to wld80y and bury this post.

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Eastern creek 1.54.10, Wakefield 1.12.60 Bathurst 3.05


Last edited by racer5 on Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:53 am, edited 10 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts and opinions?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:40 pm 
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Location: Wollongong-NSW
mlc2318 wrote:
I'm just sitting back ..... Watching


Quick. Lock this post NOW.

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Eastern creek 1.54.10, Wakefield 1.12.60 Bathurst 3.05


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts and opinions?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:04 pm 
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Location: vic
Hes literally copied Suzitech new strut braces


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