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 Post subject: K14B the future G13b ?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:45 pm 
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Just wondering if peeps have started playing with this engine since it seems to have stronger block than the G series and bike like head ports?.

Boost would be interesting but I guess DMWDave is the guru to this question as many base model Swifts and other Suzukis today have the k14b.


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 Post subject: Re: K14B the future G13b ?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:10 pm 
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A google search in English yields close to nothing. If someone were fluent in Chinese, perhaps more could be found. It would be good to find an alternative to the M16 in terms of reliability and the J24 in regards to weight.


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 Post subject: Re: K14B the future G13b ?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:48 pm 
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Im not sure it would be a replacement for an M18a but I wouldnt look the other way from a K14b with boost, today 1.4 turbos make big hp and not worth the extra 400cc if you use the variable snails now avail. There are also electric assisted turbos coming to eliminate lag.


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 Post subject: Re: K14B the future G13b ?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:25 pm 
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It's not the engine that is the problem, it's the gearboxes that will limit the K series use.
K boxes are weaker than a wet noodle and there's no rwd option that I'm aware of.

Edit (cappa's came out with both F6 and K6 so there is a rwd box for the K6, whether the bell housing is the same across all K series engines is not clear.)


Last edited by Dattman on Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: K14B the future G13b ?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:19 pm 
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Found K14b engines on Ebay Australia and not expensive at all.

As for RWD, just how different in the K14b different than the K6 in regards to transmission mounts? The K6 is RWD and bolts right up to the Jimny G13/G16 5-speed. Even if the K14 bellhousing design is profoundly different....custom job for a few hundred dollars. :?:


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 Post subject: Re: K14B the future G13b ?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:44 am 
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Lapin SS might use the same AWD system as the old Swift sedans as far as I know
if the K6 is avail in RWD format for the cappa then the K14b would not be far
off as they use the k14b for the base swift and dont see suzuki spending extra
moneys on a new bellhousing for the K series so big K probably same as M series?

The AWD systems on Suzuki should be all similar on small and medium offerings

someone here might know...is the cappa alloy diff similar to the swift sedan awd?


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 Post subject: Re: K14B the future G13b ?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:01 pm 
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d wrote:
Lapin SS might use the same AWD system as the old Swift sedans as far as I know

Swift Sedan uses a different, stronger design. Kei AWD setup is more like the Cruze, where the rear tailshaft runs off the outside of the crownwheel.

d wrote:
someone here might know...is the cappa alloy diff similar to the swift sedan awd?

Similar, but smaller.



After trawling the internet looking at photos, and comparing clutch specs, I'm pretty confident that all K series boxes have the same bellhousing, which is very close to the small frame G series. It looks completely different to M series though.

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 Post subject: Re: K14B the future G13b ?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:30 am 
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Thank you! yes the M series is a one only bell
but looks like K could be all the same just not
sure if different boxes for the auto as well as
I remember 1.3 suzuki carry vans used the Kei
box from what I heard and same with sierras.

If the Lapin SS AWD box bolts up a big block
then I would be happy to use the bigger diff
for the rear once converted to RWD.


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 Post subject: Re: K14B the future G13b ?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:52 pm 
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I don't know if Fighter Engineering is as completely useless as MonsterSport, but I sent a message asking about tuning the K12-K14.


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 Post subject: Re: K14B the future G13b ?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:20 am 
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Quote:
K engine[edit]
Suzuki K engine — 1.0–1.6 L I4
K10A — 996 cc (60.8 cu in) (68.0 x 68.6 mm) DOHC 16-valve, later with VVT and available with turbocharging. - The K10A has variable inlet cam timing and an 8.4:1 static compression ratio. Maximum output of the turbo version is 74 kW at 6,500 rpm and 122 Nm at 3,000 rpm. In naturally aspirated form it produces 51 kW (70 HP).[6] This engine is popular with hobbyist aircraft and hovercraft builders due to its light weight, torque and top-end power potential.
1997-2000 Suzuki Wagon R Wide (naturally aspirated for the EU market).
K12M — 1.2 L (1,197 cc) DOHC 16-valve, 85 PS (63 kW)
Maruti Ritz, Suzuki Splash, Maruti Swift, Maruti DZiRE
K12A — 1.2 L DOHC 16-valve, 69 PS (51 kW)
1998– Suzuki Wagon R+
K12B — 1.2 L (1,242 cc) DOHC 16-valve VVT
2009– Suzuki Splash[3]
2010– Suzuki Swift
Suzuki Liana (Changhe built, Chinese market only)

K14B — 1.4 L (1,372 cc) (73.0 x 82.0 mm) DOHC 16-valve - this 70 kW (95 PS) engine is built in China since 2005 (alongside the K12B) for Chang'an and Changhe Suzuki vehicles.
Changhe Ideal
Changhe Landy (Suzuki Carry based minivan)
Suzuki Liana a+ (Changhe built, Chinese market only)
Changhe Big Dipper - a facelifted license built Suzuki Wagon R Wide of the first generation.[7]
Suzuki Ertiga
2010– Suzuki Swift (3rd generation)
2014– Maruti Suzuki Ciaz


We can use the K10A turbo bolt ons to make the K14B a turbo motor however lowering compression will be best using custom quality pistons.

The K12b is avail in JPN of late but the 14 is a chinese only made engine widely avail
also in Aus as many Australian dont know Japanese cars doesnt mean made in Japan
these days with the Alto made in India, Carry in Indonesia and more

Even a K12b is a nice little engine as well with 73 X 74.2 mm dimensions however all
K series engines need rods and pistons for boost, as the stock rods are like G16b ones
and maybe some kind of concave cast pistons can be used to lower comp.


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 Post subject: Re: K14B the future G13b ?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:20 am 
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d wrote:
however all
K series engines need rods and pistons for boost, as the stock rods are like G16b ones
and maybe some kind of concave cast pistons can be used to lower comp.



Source for rods? Just use forged K6 rods and buy one more? Pistons?


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 Post subject: Re: K14B the future G13b ?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:29 pm 
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dont know of any rod manufacturer atm or rod specs
hopefully this is available at least in Japanese websites
but wife busy atm to help out, will happen though
I guess I will run a stock k14b then build the wanted one
on the side with better rods and pistons to lower comp
for boost and maybe earlier K10A head with no VVL.

ENGINE
Type K10B K12B
Number of cylinders 3 4
Number of valves 12 16
Piston displacement 996 1,242
Bore x stroke mm 73.0 x 79.4 73.0 x 74.2
Compression ratio 11.0 11.0
Maximum output kW/rpm 50/6,000 69/6,000
Maximum torque N・m/rpm 90/4,800 118/4,800
Type 5MT 5MT 4AT
ratio 1st 3.454 3.454 2.875
2nd 1.904 1.904 1.568
3rd 1.280 1.280 1.000
4th 1.030 1.030 0.698
5th 0.815 0.815 -
Reverse 3.272 3.272 2.300
Final gear 4.388 4.105 4.375

surprising k12b is 1kw less than the K14b

Engine type K14B
1372
Bore x stroke 73.0 x 82.0
(kW @ rpm) 70 @ 6000
(Nm @ rpm) 130 @ 4000

Torque for extra 130cc 118/4,800 vs 130 @ 4000

1242cc vs 1372

here is an article by dattman that G and K do not interchange bellhousings unfortunately
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php? ... 13#p428033

http://www.dastecnology.com/content/rotrex


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 Post subject: Re: K14B the future G13b ?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:51 pm 
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d wrote:
dont know of any rod manufacturer atm or rod specs
hopefully this is available at least in Japanese websites
but wife busy atm to help out...


Been there....lived that.

Quote:

here is an article by dattman that G and K do not interchange bellhousings unfortunately
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php? ... 13#p428033


Damn!

Here is the Muro Project Cappuccino with the K10a engine, so there is a RWD gearbox that bolts up.
http://usedcarnews.jp/archives/21278

My best research says that Muro Project is a bicycle service shop in Osaka. Its not far from me, but it may be a while before I can make it down there.
http://www.bikeshop-kensaku.com/7426.html

Hope this helps now and for anyone who reads this years to come....


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 Post subject: Re: K14B the future G13b ?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:34 pm 
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300+hp from 1L is pretty serious and motorbike engine like but torque is missing in these cars and the 400cc extra would help alot with the 82mm stroke. I also wonder the hp figures from the Japanese as they dont look as fast as minis with r1 turbo or NA engines.

If BMW was able to get 1500hp from exotic fuels and 1.5L in the 80s we should be able to get a 1/3rd of that for the 1.4L :D


just need conrod size, if someone has the suzuki manuals for the latest swift base mode?
http://www.weiku.com/products-image/904 ... -xinf.html


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 Post subject: Re: K14B the future G13b ?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:23 pm 
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I'm going to just go through this out there and I know that boost pressure is boost pressure, but what about using a supercharger to make power - like a Procharger?

https://www.procharger.com/motorcycle-powersports-superchargers/motorcycles/other-models/suzuki-hayabusa

Just putting it out there for any future reader. No matter turbo or supercharger, rods and pistons will be needed.

=====
Edited to add....

What about using performance rods and pistons for a GSX1400? I know its a bike engine and I am not an engineer, but do the specs match up to the car K14 engine size?


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 Post subject: Re: K14B the future G13b ?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:58 am 
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anyone with K14b local Aussie series rod specs?

they are supposedly a jet ski engine in china?

Description
SUZUKI 1400CC JET SKI ENGINE con rod bearing 12181-69J00-0A0

K14B SUZUKI 4 PISTON 12111-69J00 A97-195
K14B SUZUKI 4 PISTON RING 12140-69J00 A97-204
K14B SUZUKI 5 MAIN BEARING 12341/5-77J00-0AA A97-129
K14B SUZUKI 4 CON ROD BEARING 12181-69J00-0A0 A97-207
SUZUKI 1400CC JET SKI ENGINE con rod bearing 12181-69J00-0A0

http://1087776.en.makepolo.com/products ... 5/img.html

local guy in Melb has one in his jetski
http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forum ... -k14b.html

could be good to go supercharger as there is a Negun kit avail for special order

There is also the chance g16b spool rods shaved on each side of main bores then
could be used but need main bore sizing

ecu
ecu
http://page24.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/q74966275

here fitted to rwd sierra/jimny
looks like we can use head and manifolding as no vvl
http://minkara.carview.co.jp/en/userid/ ... parts.aspx

full engine complete but selling radiator here wonder if he would sell head and bits?
http://page19.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/a ... x398285575


diff is live axle for the lapin
http://page8.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/h195094729


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 Post subject: Re: K14B the future G13b ?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:56 pm 
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cat converter and little intercooler would be restrictive on 1.4L
also will need at least a ball bearing gt20 or 25

http://page12.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/a ... p464205540

http://page23.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/o97691575

maybe turbo heads have better sodium filled valves for exhaust

Image

also K14b turbo engines for 2017 will have exhaust turbo manifold cast as part of the head
like honda was doing for their first Jazz hybrid since 1998/99


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 Post subject: Re: K14B the future G13b ?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:33 am 
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Just look at what Ford has done with the 1.0L 3 cylinder....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_EcoBoost_engine#1.0_litre


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 Post subject: Re: K14B the future G13b ?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:14 am 
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What are the standard gearbox options on this engine? does the big frame box bolt up to it?

_________________
"It's not that i lost it, I just run out of room to save it."


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 Post subject: Re: K14B the future G13b ?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:52 pm 
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I can't speak about the k14 box but the k12 box I pulled apart is basically the same as the g10/g13 small frame box with a few changes, k12 bell housing is quite different to the g10/g13 so doubt very much you'll get a large frame box to bolt up, but you might find with completely different bolt holes an adapter plate might work.

The main changes between the K12 and G10/G13 is they have shortened the 5th gear assembly and have a lower profile 5th gear cover, this has shortened the overall length of the box.
Input shaft is thicker at the bearing and seal but tapers down to only 18mm, bigger input bearing.
The biggest pita is they have moved the centreline of the diff, the g10/g13 diff is completely incompatible so finding an LSD will be interesting.

Personally I can't see the K14 being tuned by many people, if you're NA then you're over 1.3 and boosted you're over 2L, the K12 would make a good little sub 1.3 class engine with an over bore but then diff and gearing options are limited.


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