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 Post subject: Re: ITSMAD UPDATE
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:30 am 
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Location: Gold Coast Qld
lol @ James

Email me at work, will have some time to do your box in the next couple of weeks. Have some 10-14 weeks for the new parts to arrive for mine, so a little bit of spare time atm.

OK, UPDATE as people have requested.

Was quite a long day, sorting out some minor issues. Had a fuel pump die on us, so got that sorted. Had the tune redone all over due to the increased flow of the new pump. Once that was done, had a small misfire, tracked that down and sorted. Then started tuning for power.
We wanted to bring it to around 26psi on pump fuel, but another problem has showed. We cannot get the car to sustain boost. No matter what happens, once we turn boost up about 10psi, it holds for about 100rpm, and tapers straight back down. It seems to have far too much pressure in the exhaust housing, and is blowing the wastegate flap/valve open every time. We tried everything with the actuator to sustain it, but no luck.

Its quite late, so I'll scan the dyno sheet tomorrow or early sat.

End result is 238.9hp@all four on 15psi. Due to the rpm, it is coming very close to maxing the injectors out at this time, so they are being upgraded with the next lot of changes.

If anyone wishes to check out the car, it will be racing it at Willowbank on Sunday. We want to see how it goes at this level, with the stock drivetrain.

After that, well we are making the following changes.

These include
- GT3076R HTA with a .82 Tial Exhaust housing
- 44mm Tial external wastegate
- Slightly redesigned exhaust manifold
- 1000cc injectors
- possibly a few mods to the intake manifold
- roll cage
- locking the rear viscous coupling
- billet driveshafts
- roll cage

Will hopefully get a chance to test it and race it before jamboree. I'll keep updating this thread as things are done. But good thing is, the teething problems are being dealt with and the car is progressing. As i said earlier, there are no secrets with the car. While disappointing that we couldnt put more boost into it, it is doing as I expected by making approx 10hp@wheels per psi. I expect this to increase with the larger, more efficient turbocharger especially once it gets into the meat of its efficiency range above 20psi. The reason for the GT30 wheel and .82 rear, is to sustain the high exhaust flow. The engine really does like the rpm, and has a nice powerband from 5000-9500rpm. Looking at the dyno chart here, it makes the following

All readings are hp @ all four wheels

4500rpm - 87hp
5000rpm - 121hp
5500rpm - 185hp
6000rpm - 220hp

Wait til we put some real boost into it, with a better flowing turbo. Providing there are no knock issues, it'll be tuned to around 28psi on pump fuel, and 40ish on C16 :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: ITSMAD UPDATE
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:04 am 
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Location: Brisbane
A quick question for you,Im not having a go at you atall ,just wondering if you are aware of a few issues.
As I understand it the whole reason Jamie gave up running this car was because he kept blowing up gearboxes(4wd),I think he reported somewhere that he blew three boxes or rear drive sections in sucsession.Have you changed any of the gearset to something stronger?
I know if I run over 320hp atw in two wheel drive form I stand a very good chance of stripping the teeth in 2nd and 3rd in my 4wd boxes,(ive got a plastic box at work with at least three stripped 3rd gears!!) the fact that you should have much better traction with the 4wd will put even greater load on the 4wd box and will be the reason jamie broke these each time he ran the car, welding up the viscous and rear diff will maybe stop the rear brakeing but what about the actual gearbox.
There is also a problem with fourth gear on these boxes trying to push its way out of the caseing,as the thrust face is very small.

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 Post subject: Re: ITSMAD UPDATE
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:50 pm 
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Ha,

next time call me so mum doesnt have to take you to get a new fuel pump :P

ON the box side i can't see money being an issue here dave. If it goes bang im sure PPG or another supplier of box hardware is only a phone call away.

As for availability.... i have a whole weekend in three weeks. infact we should hit the valley on the turps on the saturday night.

Have your people call my people and then our people can call matts mum and see if he is allowed out :P

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 Post subject: Re: ITSMAD UPDATE
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:26 pm 
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PPG won't make a dog box for the swift.....

I've asked :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: ITSMAD UPDATE
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:07 pm 
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Location: Gold Coast Qld
Ok, in response to Dave

Not sure on the source of the info regarding Jamie having driveline breakages, but its false. It may have been said in Fast fours etc, but hey, how often are their articles correct about anything :D Just to clear things up, Jamie didnt pursue the car, as he left the country due to personal issues.

Anyways, back to the box. Yeah, I'm aware of some of the issues people have had with the gearbox's. I'm not sure what issues we'll come across, but as I've said earlier, I'd rather see what breaks and why, and then work on a resolution instead of going by what a very small amount of other people have found. (Not knocking what you have found, just that our setups are very different and so is the power delivery amongst other things). Its generally torque that breaks driveline components, and due to the higher rpm nature of this engine, it should be a lot nicer on these parts.

I dont believe anyone has pushed the awd setup this far that we can get any data from. It will be a good test at this lower power level, to see how it does hold together. I'm sure you can see its most likely to produce over 300hp@all four on pump fuel alone, and a lot more once we really push it with the new turbo setup. Time will tell, and I'll keep the updates coming when we do break components.
Diff wise - I'm not fussed about. There are plenty of options if need be, to strengthen that area.
Gearbox wise, there are gearsets available for this also. Not sure why ppg state they don't do a gearset for them, as I can assure they have and they do. It could be a licensing issue as to why they arent publicly stating it.



James - lol.. funny bastard... funnier that its actually true.. mum saved the day, stranded at the dyno without transport is always entertaining

Hell yeah, for a few weeks. Matt - lol.. email me, I have some funny goss in that department, it wont be his mother he's asking permission from, thats for sure lol

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 Post subject: Re: ITSMAD UPDATE
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:21 pm 
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RUNUTS wrote:
I dont believe anyone has pushed the awd setup this far that we can get any data from. It will be a good test at this lower power level, to see how it does hold together.l


Garndi was putting 240HP through his AWD setup and had breakages.
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Best of luck for the weekend. Keep us posted.


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 Post subject: Re: ITSMAD UPDATE
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:27 pm 
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Yeah, but his breakages to me were not from the hp.

He had a one piece tailshaft...

His hp is very different to ours :wink:

And I believe that power output was at the front wheels(actually, prob wrong there)

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 Post subject: Re: ITSMAD UPDATE
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:16 am 
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Yeh garndi's was fwd for the 240hp. So he was having breakages at far less power than your running. He was also running much less weight at the time which would have taken some load off the box. He was launching damn hard though. Keep your skirt on coming off the line and you might be alright.

Im still skeptical about the proposed future figures. Hopefully your engine doesnt do what mine did. 200hp @ 10psi. Then made 12hp per 1psi up to 250hp then just hit a wall. Fuel octane definately stops the fun but the efficiency of the engine at higher hp has a lot to do with it. Youve got significantly more headwork than me so im keen to see how it goes up top.

Ill probably be out there sunday to take a look. If all goes well, will you be racing at jamboree? How soons the turbo spooling? Will be interesting to see it come off the line with low revs. I remember seeing 'drag me' on a run like that. Ran a 14sec run @ 150mph :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: ITSMAD UPDATE
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:06 pm 
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Hey Harry

Will be interesting. I gave it fair wack off the line the other day, and it seems to hold pretty easily. But yeah, it wont be doing the same 60 foot times as garndi's, thats for sure. Not at this stage anyways. I would rather use the topend of it to pull it along than a good launch. I'm aware of some of Garndi's breakages, but I dont think the majority of them are hp related. Not that they should be, its torque that breaks these things.

The proposed figures, I dont expect to be a linear increase in hp per psi. It will always hit a wall. The wall usually comes from the exhaust side of the turbocharger. On a small capacity engine, in order to combat lag and transient response, people go too small exhaust wheel/housing. Which once you get the increased volume of exhaust gasses, the resriction exponentially increases, and hence the brick wall.

As this setup makes power up high in the rpm range, it allows for a much more free flowing exhaust side. I'm not too sure the .82 T3 exhaust side will be optimal, in fact I believe it will be too large. Will more than likely start with a .63 and see how it goes. From results with other engines, going from GT2876R, to GT3076R generally results in faster spool, and increased power up top. (The GT2876R is really a very mismatched turbo, not only with oversized/heavy comp wheel to exhaust ratio, but also in the actual flow ratio of the two). In theory it should increase the overall efficiency of this engine. It will at some point hit a brick wall one way or another. At what point I'm not sure. I know of another 1.3 litre, that kept has kept increasing turbo size, to the point where its now at a GT47, and yes you read correctly, and it still doesnt have a spool problem. For those chasing big hp at high rpm, I strongly suggest a larger exhaust wheel in a smaller exhaust housing. The exhaust wheel flow makes a huge difference.

I personally will be happy with 320hp@all four from this setup on pump fuel. I think its achievable, and possibly more, but time will tell.

Harry, what cams did you run on your setup? This is one of the biggest area's for achieving more power and running decent boost on pump fuel(30psi). Dropping the dynamic comp with good camshaft selection is very good for increasing efficiency with boost, but it needs a good flowing exhaust to get the most from it.

It will make Jambo, I'm not sure of its state by then, as time is limited. lol@drag me... would be nice to get a big mph run like that, but the sights are set on 140mph. Not sure if it will happen, or when, as there are still a hell of alot of unknowns, so time will tell.

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 Post subject: Re: ITSMAD UPDATE
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:21 pm 
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How did it go?


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 Post subject: Re: ITSMAD UPDATE
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:37 pm 
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Drag day is tomorrow champ

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 Post subject: Re: ITSMAD UPDATE
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:39 pm 
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RUNUTS wrote:
Drag day is tomorrow champ


Damnit :lol: another sleep.


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 Post subject: Re: ITSMAD UPDATE
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:30 pm 
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bzchi wrote:
RUNUTS wrote:
Drag day is tomorrow champ


Damnit :lol: another sleep.


umm weather permitting .. it is raining up here and looks like continuing tomorrow.

QR was absolutely soaked and fun watching HQ's and Gemini's sliding around the track!

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 Post subject: Re: ITSMAD UPDATE
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:26 pm 
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so did it end up getting rained out or is there some updates.


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 Post subject: Re: ITSMAD UPDATE
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:38 pm 
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lukemc wrote:
so did it end up getting rained out or is there some updates.

It was cancelled because of the weather :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: ITSMAD UPDATE
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:34 pm 
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that is a shame - as after all that, it was fine all day up at Willowbank .. so we had great weather for racing at QR .. cool and overcast .. NO rain.

Perfect for drag racing!

Oh well hopefully it will be on again soon.

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 Post subject: Re: ITSMAD UPDATE
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:32 am 
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Harry000 wrote:
. I remember seeing 'drag me' on a run like that. Ran a 14sec run @ 150mph :lol:


hahaha thats because marty cant shift :P

ran a 9 when he moved to the two speed power glide.

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 Post subject: Re: ITSMAD UPDATE
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:54 pm 
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And just think he went back to manual again,

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 Post subject: Re: ITSMAD UPDATE
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:56 am 
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slightly off topic.... the Greddy dog box he used on that 150 mile pass destroyed a selector fork in it the next time it hit the road in a different car.

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 Post subject: Re: ITSMAD UPDATE
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:23 pm 
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I though squeek had his car up and running with the box in, maybe he just got the car running.

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