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 Post subject: Daily with race car aspirations
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 9:21 pm
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Location: Sydney
So about a year and a half ago, i got my first car so i could learn to drive a manual and learn about fixing cars. I had been trying to find something that would be fun and i ended up with my swift. the thing had a bit of a rich history with all sorts of questionable things done to it, including an awful sound system among other things. From what we could tell though, the car hadnt been abused much and it was still functioning as good as you would expect, and it came with a year of rego which is what i originally went in for.
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File comment: The day we picked it up
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it came with a parts car that we were told was a GTi with a seized engine, but as it turns out, it was just a cino with a stupid exhaust system, though on the bright side, it had a "refurbished" gearbox [which i think is code for "bought from a wreckers and essentially unused because the engine siezed"] but anything would be an upgrade for the current gearbox which sounds like its going to s**t itself to death if you rev over 5k. We ended up scabbing a few good bits off of it though.
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File comment: The parts car
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The car ended up sitting for about 6 months as i couldnt be bothered to learn manual, but during that time we [my dad in particular] cleaned the whole thing up immensely: tyres, poly bushes, new rack ends, wiring cleaned up considerably and a bit of an overhaul of just about every part of the car. The paint is still horrible, but that will change over time.
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swift rocker cover.jpeg
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Now that i have got myself into a slightly more stable financial position, my plan is to slowly make the car track-able so i can enter time attack events, and possibly some endurance races, but keep it as a daily until i can find a suitable replacement [my eyes are currently on a ke10 corolla]. My overall goal is to make around 100kw with the engine without running a turbo, and try to get the weight down to less than 600kg [which might be a bit ambitious haha]. Also im trying to keep my budget as low as possible, so im planning to fabricate as much as i can, or modify preexisting parts for my purposes. im going to use every trick in the book to push the car as far as i can.
For now, im just upgrading parts of the car that are not quite up to spec. Thanks to Trackwarrior.com.au i managed to source a set of HPX pads for the car and some pretty beefy rotors for not too much.
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new brakes.jpeg
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Next step is to lower it with some second hand springs and get some upgraded shocks. Eventually i want to run coilovers on the front and get some lower profile tyres for the 15x7" maristar wheels i have that came off an r31 skyline rally car.
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The to do list is as follows:
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to do list.jpeg
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wish me luck haha


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 Post subject: Re: Daily with race car aspirations
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:41 pm 
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You will be lucky to get Under 600kgs and still being road legal. To do this you would need to at a minimum Totally Strip the interior and replace all the glass (except windscreen) with Lexan. Even then I doubt you will get under 600kgs.

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 Post subject: Re: Daily with race car aspirations
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:23 am 
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yeah you're right, 600 kg was sort of a long term goal/aspiration for when this car hands in its plates. 720 seems achievable while its still getting daily driven, but honestly, having read through pages of build threads, getting to my goal weight is going to be impossible without replacing roof skins and structural parts, and thats more money than i want to spend on such an old car. ive been thinking of it as something to work towards but never necessarily achieve?

even the plan to stay n/a is in question at this point because of price. like for the same cost building a 100kw g13b, i could build a 120+kw engine for waaaay less [or swap in a honda b series motor hehe]

an aspect of the car that i did really want to focus on was aero design that could be suitable for endurance races, but easily altered to run in time attack events. heat management is sort of cool to investigate and i have some ideas for it that could be interesting, but i have even more ideas regarding downforce oriented aero design. i probably wont be running the car fast enough for lots of those ideas to really do anything, but they might be useful in the future.

i have big dreams and very little time/money


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 Post subject: Re: Daily with race car aspirations
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:14 am 
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What enduro events do you plan on entering?

Look at series regulations before jumping in the deep end with modifications, as once you have done them it maybe hard to either -
1 - go back
2 - enter events as the car no longer conforms to any rule sets

600kg with a roll cage is going to be extremely hard to achieve with out composite panels and a lot of expense.

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 Post subject: Re: Daily with race car aspirations
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:42 pm 
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first "race" im putting it in is going to be the cheap car challenge at Marulan, just to shake it down and see how it performs during continuous smashing. its not a competitive series, and the rules are pretty restrictive [ie no suspension upgrades, no touching your engine etc] but it should be a good starting point for figuring out what to do next.

if anybody is under the assumption that i know where im going with this build, you are sorely mistaken.


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 Post subject: Re: Daily with race car aspirations
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:28 pm 
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Updates:
Managed to source what i can only figure to be the only upgraded rear sway bar for a swift gti left in this country: a 19mm rear sway bar from Ultra Racing. the rear end is much more well behaved, but i still need to sort out a set of adjustable shocks and redrill the shock mount to allow for some rear camber.
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Sorting out the annoying worn out rear engine mount. should make my rattle box rattle a bit more than usual.
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gtaye sorted me out with a chipped ECU, also gave me a stock mapped chip just in case.
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Also remounted the ECU on the other side of the steering column with a custom bracket. new engine mapping is definitely more suited to higher revs, but that may have something to do with TPS calibration and my MAF sensor being a bit dirty. Also blocked off the idle control valve on the intake as it started gurgling and messing around with the idle.

As for eventual plans, ive decided that endurance racing is boring and time attack and tarmac rallying is really cool. currently planning to enter a few races in the coming year: Jap Nats in the NA street class, WTAC club sprint, and a few other local sydney club events as they come around. Eventually i would like to enter the Tassy Targa, but thats going to have to be well in the future. in the mean time, im planning to do as many track days as i can afford and get better at driving.

As for paint, i had an idea that is definitely going to be hated by most, if not all: cheap gold chrome wrap. i found someone selling massive rolls of the stuff for relatively cheap and the idea struck me as being a good alternative to repainting the horrible paint on my car...


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 Post subject: Re: Daily with race car aspirations
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:17 pm 
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So ive given the car a pretty solid shakedown on my secret test track [located in lilyfield's Callan Park from 3am-4am] but i still need to give it to my mate who is a vehicle dynamics consultant so he can point me in the right direction in terms of suspension/bracing set ups, as i have felt the chassis flexing heaps and the front end diving way more than it should. any ideas from you guys would be similarly appreciated.

As for the engine, the new ECU is highlighting some existing problems that will need longer term solutions, specifically in terms of reliability. the idle speed control valve keeps making the car rev hunt when the engine has been under continuous load for more than a few minutes and occasionally it dies under heavy braking. still trying to figure that one out having traced the usual paths, now thinking of just replacing the idle control valve, the PCV and replacing my fuel filter and maybe sacrificing a goat to appease the suzuki gods.

also having slogged the car so hard the past couple of weeks, the mild oil leek from the dizzy has turned into a semi-catastrophic valve cover gasket failure that now threatens to coat the entire engine bay in a fog of oil. its an easy fix, but im not too sure about the dizzy gasket kit, ive heard pretty negative things about the whole process.


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 Post subject: Re: Daily with race car aspirations
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:33 pm 
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Have you talked to K-mac suspension in Sydney. They have always made GTi stuff and even if not on the shelf I am sure they can sort you out.

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 Post subject: Re: Daily with race car aspirations
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:15 pm 
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ive actually got a set of second hand lowered springs that k-mac made, but ive never had the chance to actually talk to them. i did a bit of research and they get a pretty harsh rap from almost everyone on the internet, but that might be unfounded?

todays discussion:

trying to suss out a new engine that will get me 200kw without increasing the front end weight by too much? can it be done?

ive looked into a few different options for engine swaps, even going as a far as to price a turbo 2.0L alfa romeo v6, but there are only a couple that even come close to the weight of the g13b+gearbox, specifically the toyota 2zz and 4agze [though these still need lots of work to make 200kw], the mitsubishi 4g63t motor [which right now appears to be a solid option], and a nissan ca18det, and even then thats 40-50kg extra weight. anyone have any ideas on this matter?

is it even worth considering the extra weight at the front, or does it not make that much difference to the handling characteristics? i imagine that you could get pretty decent acceleration out of corners with an extra 40kg over the wheels, but i would think that it would lose the rear end waaaay too easily under brakes. anyone with experience on the matter?


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 Post subject: Re: Daily with race car aspirations
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:35 pm 
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It is not just the weight, but the physical dimensions, that will stymy your efforts. A G16B and gearbox takes up most of the engine bay. Without modifying chassis and suspension and steering, not much bigger will fit. An exception might be the K series Honda stuff. Talk to Ben Cavanagh (Pussinboost).

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 Post subject: Re: Daily with race car aspirations
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:16 pm 
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200kw is done easy enough with the g13b if you add some boost...
Just stock up on head gaskets.

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 Post subject: Re: Daily with race car aspirations
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:46 am 
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yeah the k-swap does look pretty tempting just in terms of easy power and knowing it will fit. also its easy enough to compensate for having a heavy front with some clever damping and some rear downforce.
just in terms of long term plans though, turboing the g13b is definitely going to happen before a k-swap, but probably only take it to about 140kw, just to be on the safe side. building a strong bottom end shouldn't be too expensive [H beams rods and forged pistons, and probably do bearings while i can], but im not 100% on how much boost you can run on a totally stock head, and how much power you can put through a stock gearbox.


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 Post subject: Re: Daily with race car aspirations
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:05 pm 
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Bit off topic but did the cino have any rego plates on it when you got it? Looks like my very first swift from back in the day so i was just curious haha. Plates were AK30XV.
Best of luck with your build!

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 Post subject: Re: Daily with race car aspirations
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:06 pm 
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nah it didnt come with plates, but those wheels seem to be a pretty rare sight, so chances are it is yours. this one has a g13ba engine in it as well if that helps?


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 Post subject: Re: Daily with race car aspirations
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:51 pm 
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dangerbatty wrote:
nah it didnt come with plates, but those wheels seem to be a pretty rare sight, so chances are it is yours. this one has a g13ba engine in it as well if that helps?


Those wheels are standard fitment to that particular model - most commonly known as a Cino Extreme.

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 Post subject: Re: Daily with race car aspirations
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:37 pm 
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dangerbatty wrote:
turboing the g13b is definitely going to happen before a k-swap, but probably only take it to about 140kw, just to be on the safe side. building a strong bottom end shouldn't be too expensive [H beams rods and forged pistons, and probably do bearings while i can], but im not 100% on how much boost you can run on a totally stock head, and how much power you can put through a stock gearbox.

200-250hp atw can be done reliably and cheapish. I know several engines in that power range with 70k+km and still going strong with nothing more than stock bottom end bar vitara pistons, either stock head with different cams or ported head with stock cams. Larger injectors, bigger fuel pump, a/m ecu and some other small supporting mods. Nothing special and plenty of go. Gearboxes are a bit of an issue but I made a 3cyl gearset last for a good 4 years before stripping the crown and pinion. Have now gone the 1600 sedan route with swift sport internals which should hold some abuse.


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 Post subject: Re: Daily with race car aspirations
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:08 pm 
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i think im going build the bottom end anyway, just so i dont ever have to worry about dropping a rod or cracking a piston. running 8.5:1 or 9:1 compression seems pretty safe, especially with e85 and forged bottom end. its more about having the confidence to wind boost into it. im a nervous person haha.
from what ive read, a stock block starts to destroy itself at about 150kw, but im not sure if ive just been reading the wrong threads. i think zuboo wrote a good basic guide to building a strong turbo engine, but i cant find it now?
re: gearbox failure, i was thinking of going the dog box route, but every company that ive found that makes dog sets for the swift are way out of reach for my budget. i think going to a g16 box is the way to go for now.


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 Post subject: Re: Daily with race car aspirations
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:11 pm 
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My setup....
G13BA block with stock Gti crank & rods with vitara pistons, balanced and o-ringed (done before the popular mls gaskets were discovered)
Ported head, stock cams, stock intake manifold and TB.
Stock ignition, Adaptronic ecu.
Modified fuel rail, sard fpr, supra 440cc injectors.
Secondhand TD04 from a WRX running 19psi and it made 215hp atw.
Have had this running for 7 years now with over 70k Km on it and have never doubted its reliability and never worried that it'll go boom. It may do one day, but for a budget build with many secondhand parts, I sure have gotten a hell of a lot of smiles from it and put some fast expensive cars to shame :lol: .

Get someone to do a decent tune and you wont have any issues. All tried and tested and not really much different to Zuboos set up.
Eventually I'll get a better turbo, a set of cams and upgrade the ignition, retune and go up to ~250hpatw (on 98RON).


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 Post subject: Re: Daily with race car aspirations
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:05 pm 
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as is the case with all ambitious builds, this one hasnt gone to plan... at all... like take the plan, burn it and cry in the corner.

when i picked up the car, the guy who sold it reckoned that there was no rust, and a few weeks ago, i found the mother load in the front cross member. it had been bogged and painted pretty well so it couldnt be seen, but its bad enough that i dont really feel safe driving it any more. that and the massive oil leeks, the very cooked gearbox [now in pieces on my driveway], the collapsed rear engine mount and the legion of other small gremlins. also work has picked up these last few months which means ive been struggling to find the time to work on it. ive got the parts but not the time.

regrettably, the plan is to sell it and completely clear house. get rid of the swift gti and the e30 and get something newer with fewer kms on the clock. probably something stupid and turbo, mr2? or something tough and practical, brumby?

im still a gti lover at heart, and ill still be on the forums, but this build was destined for death before it began... hopefully i will have another one in the future.


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