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 Post subject: Re: Moke G13B conversion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:50 pm 
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Location: Brisbane
saczel wrote:
I could be wrong but assume the mk2/3 ecu would need the remote afm as per the factory setup. My guess the mk 2/3 afm. Not too sure if it would mount on the end of manifold like mk1 or have it near filter, it might work either way. If space is a concern probably remote. Depends if the harness has the lenght. Try whatever is easiest and see what happens. My best guess.


Thanks for the reply mate. Let's see what others say (although not much has been forthcoming). There's a number of problems with fitting a Mk2 AFM on a Mk1 manifold - the bolt configuration is different and the lug that holds the sensor wires is a different diameter.

Still hopeful it can be sorted. May be the Mini 16v forum will come up with the answer.

Cheers Adrian


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 Post subject: Re: Moke G13B conversion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:58 pm 
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It's has probably been done by someone over the years. If you get stuck for a adapter plate i might be able to help as i work with cnc routers and can make one with a few measurements to go by. Just got to get the boss on a good day, he gets a bit cranky if it's getting in the way of work for some reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Moke G13B conversion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:12 pm
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Location: Brisbane
It's has probably been done by someone over the years. If you get stuck for a adapter plate i might be able to help as i work with cnc routers and can make one with a few measurements to go by. Just got to get the boss on a good day, he gets a bit cranky if it's getting in the way of work for some reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Moke G13B conversion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:59 pm 
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Location: Brisbane
Double post, i was wondering why it it was slow.


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 Post subject: Re: Moke G13B conversion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:34 pm 
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Thanks - I'll keep you posted.

Cheers Adrian


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 Post subject: Re: Moke G13B conversion
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:16 pm 
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If you're chasing answers on here you might have better luck asking them in the tech section :wink:
I think you will have issues running a mk2 ecu with a mk1 afm.
From memory there is quite a considerable internal size difference between the mk1 and mk2 afm's, so your ecu won't be seeing the correct air flow values.

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 Post subject: Re: Moke G13B conversion
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:24 pm 
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Location: Brisbane
Pauly wrote:
If you're chasing answers on here you might have better luck asking them in the tech section :wink:
I think you will have issues running a mk2 ecu with a mk1 afm.
From memory there is quite a considerable internal size difference between the mk1 and mk2 afm's, so your ecu won't be seeing the correct air flow values.


Thanks mate - I'll repost in Tech section also. There is a siginficant size difference between Mk1 and Mk2. Oddly the Mk2 AFM is the smaller diameter.

I'm hoping the Mini boys (16v forum) will come up with the goods. They're more likely to have changed to Mk1 manifold due to space issues.

Cheers Adrian


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 Post subject: Re: Moke G13B conversion
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:55 pm 
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Location: Brisbane
Things are moving forward (albeit in baby steps). I've sorted the AFM wiring problem (I used the Mk2 unit in the Mk1 manifold, but I still don't have a spark.

I spent a good portion of the day with a multimeter and my ECU/ignition system. Most of the voltages and resistances were all good. My problem appears to be the coil (high primary side resistance reading) and the ignition output signal from the ECU which wont deliver 3V at cranking. I've got 12V at the coil on both terminals.

I've ordered a new coil but will hold fire on getting a replacement ECU until new coil arrives and is tested.

I suppose its progress (i.e. most things are ok) ;D


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 Post subject: Re: Moke G13B conversion
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:16 pm 
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MK1 reversed manifold looks like it would fit. Puts the TB on the other end of the manifold. Neo is the only one I know who has one or two these manifolds. He might sell you one if he has a spare. I saw he was selling some Group A bits (but he's in the US so might be delayed responding to a PM- but he will).
Think he had one with a bigger throttle body fitted and set up for a MK2/. Rare manifold but it might make things easier and you can just use the MK2 AFM - if you can find one.

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 Post subject: Re: Moke G13B conversion
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:56 pm 
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86mk1gti wrote:
MK1 reversed manifold looks like it would fit.


I was going to make the same suggestion, based on the pic above. However other pics show a remote brake booster on the firewall right where the TB would sit on a reverse manifold.

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 Post subject: Re: Moke G13B conversion
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:33 am 
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Thanks for the replies guys. Before I go to anything too radical, I'm trying a compromise solution. I've fitted the Mk2 AFM (which matches the ECU) in the Mk1 manifold. The sensor wires in both AFMs are identical as are the venturis (diameter and length). The only difference is the diameter of the lug that carries the sensor wires (Mk1 is bigger) and the location bolt configuration (2 diagonal on the Mk2 and triangular on the Mk1). I've drilled and tapped an additional mounting bolt hole in the Mk1 manifold and fitted a larger o ring to seal the AFM. Let's hope all is good when I finally get the motor started.

Cheers Adrian


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 Post subject: Re: Moke G13B conversion
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 6:21 pm 
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Well - the car's still not going. Auto elec popped round on Thursday and we identified that the crank angle sensor in the distributor was not giving a sufficient signal to energise the ECU to throw an output signal to the coil. I've now fitted a new CAS and its still not giving a spark. Out of desperation I changed the distributor body over today with a spare I had. The trigger wheel was in a different place on the distributor shaft - bingo I thought. I rebuilt the distributor and still no spark. I do get an inconsistent spark turning the distributor by hand (when not bolted in place) but as soon as I refit it and crank the engine over I get no spark.

Completely baffled - I've now changed the coil, ECU, distributor, crank angle sensor, ignition power unit, and checked everything else at least twice.

Any ideas??????????

Cheers Adrian


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 Post subject: Re: Moke G13B conversion
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 6:48 pm 
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Location: Brisbane
Great news - I now have a spark. Problem was the EFI relay supply was coming from an ignition feed which was being isolated when the ignition key cranked the starter motor. The supply now comes from a stable 12v battery feed.

Next problem is I now have no fuel pressure. Pump is working fine and fuel is being pumped via the return. Everything was ok so I can only assume the FPR has failed in the fuel rail (the brittle problem encountered elsewhere). I have an adjustable FPR so will install that in the return line at the weekend.

PS: all injectors are firing correctly (checked with a sound meter).

Cheers Adrian


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 Post subject: Re: Moke G13B conversion
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 5:00 pm 
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Location: Brisbane
Another frustrating afternoon working on the red Moke. I've now fitted the adjustable FPR and I have the necessary 40psi fuel pressure. The injectors are still firing (checked with sound scope) BUT THE CAR STILL WONT START. No fuel on the plugs so I'm guessing I need to dismantle the fuel rail and clean the injectors (which is a fairly big job in terms of removing a whole bunch of stuff that's in the way).

I'm going to leave it alone for a few weeks and find something more productive to do.

Cheers Adrian


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 Post subject: Re: Moke G13B conversion
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 6:00 pm 
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The fuel rail and the injectors should come off all together with two bolts, and disconnecting the return line then take it out towards the gearbox side. you can then hook up a mock return line and see the spray pattern. It's not common to have all the injectors completely blocked... but you sir are having all the bad luck it seems. Hopefully the cleaning of the injectors sorts it out.


EDITED

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 Post subject: Re: Moke G13B conversion
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 6:05 pm 
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It would be very unlikely that the injectors would completely block and stop any fuel from getting into the cylinders. When injectors are dirty the issue is usually that they leak or have an uneven spray pattern. Sounds like your problem is lack of signal/power to the injectors.

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 Post subject: Re: Moke G13B conversion
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 6:23 pm 
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SOBIL wrote:
The fuel rail and the injectors should come off all together with two bolts, and disconnecting the return line then take it out towards the gearbox side. you can then hook up a mock return line and see the spray pattern. It's not common to have all the injectors completely blocked... but you sir are having all the bad luck it seems. Hopefully the cleaning of the injectors sorts it out.


EDITED


Thanks mate - I'm ok with removing the fuel rail its just that there's lots of stuff in the way this being a conversion and all. The injectors are firing but I'm now wondering if they're firing at the right time. I did alter the position of the trigger wheel on the dizzy shaft as it didn't match the spare one I had. It could be that it was in the right place originally. I'll do a reset and try again.

Cheers Adrian


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 Post subject: Re: Moke G13B conversion
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 6:25 pm 
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[YLD80Y] wrote:
It would be very unlikely that the injectors would completely block and stop any fuel from getting into the cylinders. When injectors are dirty the issue is usually that they leak or have an uneven spray pattern. Sounds like your problem is lack of signal/power to the injectors.


Thanks for the reply - I've done all the diagnostics in the workshop manual and everything has the correct continuity/voltages. The injectors are firing (sound scope checked) but they may be firing at the wrong time. I'm doing to check/reset the trigger wheel position in the dizzy.

Cheers Adrian


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 Post subject: Re: Moke G13B conversion
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 8:11 pm 
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If the injectors are firing then the spark plugs should be wet. Are you getting any combustion at all, or does it just turn over without any fire?

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 Post subject: Re: Moke G13B conversion
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 8:32 pm 
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I wouldn't call it combustion but there is some intermittent backfiring through the exhaust

Cheers Adrian


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