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 Post subject: '86 Mk1 GTI AA33S rebuild in NZ
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:40 am 
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Posts: 81
Location: Wellington
In the Land of The Long White Cloud resides this original Holden Barina GTI. My Dad owned this car for 10 years and I drove it when I was younger which started my love of the GTI (At the same time I owned a Suzuki Swift GL SOHC Carb that went well). Through circumstance I purchased the car back into the family and is now my project. It is only a year younger than me!

(After talking with a few people who have had Mk1s before, the whole turbo side will be done in one go, and not for some time yet. Essentially it needs ECU, manifold, intercooler, turbo, angle dangle sensor, G16B oil pump, dizzy, ignition system etc all done in one go. So for now, it's repair to get a reliable daily and then accumulate turbo parts)

If anyone happens to come across the rare Group A inlet manifold, I'm open to buying it.

This is a long term project and the end goals are as follows:

Original car exterior
G13B turbo engine rebuilt - 200hp ish
Street use
15-18psi-ish

As there are not many of these around I thought it might be of interest to others and there are many knowledgeable people on here. I have done a lot of late night reading and have lots of ideas of what to do and how to do it. I like quality and build things to last rather than cheap and fast, however we all look for a good deal.

Here is a rough list of all I want to do however I am still unsure whether to build the engine once with all the headroom for big turbo boost or to run it on stock (with all supporting mods done) with a low boost setup (5-8psi) first then completely rebuild with all the good bits later (read aftermarket ECU, forged internals, cams etc). Might be a good chance to check for wear after a while of running a low boost setup??

Engine
Gasket kit
MLS head gasket
Forged Rods
Cams - Have acquired some BD10s with adjutable cam gears.
Head port and polish - DIY
Bearings - rod and main
ARP bolts - stud and main
Engine mounts - acquired thanks to SPR! Poly all round.
Aluminium pulley
Flywheel - will depend on gearbox, aluminium maybe?
Street clutch - possible hydraulic conversion?
Boost controller - the best i can get!
BOV - sequential?
Turbo Extractors
Turbo - to be chosen. Twin scroll would be a dream!
Exhaust 2.5" free flow


Intake
Throttle body - either SR20 or bored main to 52mm
Cold air intake
Intercooler and pipework

Transmission
Probably G16 hybrid

Suspension
Strut brace- front and rear
Sway bar - rear
Coils and shocks
Suspension bushes - poly all round (in progress)

Supporting
Radiator
Aftermarket ECU - Link - Need to find a tuner.
Ignition leads
High performance coil - ditch dizzy and go electronic?
Fuel rail
Fuel pump
Injectors - ID1000
Fuel Pressure Regulator?
Spark Plugs - done

Brakes
Braided lines
Upgraded calipers and maybe discs

Wheels
Original SSR Formula Mesh 15" x 6" in gold.


Most likely a few things I have forgotten at the moment. Will update of course with pics too :)

I am open to suggestions, comments, opinions on the above as many have trod this path before and I will be in touch with some on specifics.


Attachments:
IMAG1088.jpg
IMAG1088.jpg [ 1.05 MiB | Viewed 208 times ]
File comment: Original condition but currently not running.
IMAG1092.jpg
IMAG1092.jpg [ 1.45 MiB | Viewed 208 times ]

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Last edited by Howsie13 on Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:04 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: '86 Mk1 GTI AA33S rebuild in NZ
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:13 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:03 am
Posts: 2035
Location: Canberra
MLS head gasket, Forged Rods, Forged Pistons, Head port and polish - DIY, Bearings - rod and main, ARP bolts - stud and main: Buy DMW Dave engine or follow Zuboo's build for Honda piston engine.
Cams - to be chosen: Use cultus cam or DMWDave cultus cam with extra lift.
Gearbox - maybe G16 hybrid? Yes. New swift internals and LSD
Engine mounts: Yes, options for sale on board. Usual suspects for more solid mounts
Aluminium pulley: Not necessary
Flywheel - will depend on gearbox, aluminium maybe? Not necessary
Street clutch - possible hydraulic conversion? DMWDave ceramic with sprung centre. Definitely usable on the road.
Throttle body: Yes. People go up to SR20DE 60mm TB.
Radiator: Aluminium ebay ones seem good, no issues with the one I have.
Turbo - to be chosen. Twin scroll would be a dream! GTX2860
Exhaust 2.5" free flow: Yes, good system with mandrel bends and appropriate catalytic converter.
Intercooler and pipework: Sizing is important. Don't go too big diameter. Keep bends to a minimum.
Boost controller - internal: MAC boost controller controlled by ECU
BOV - sequential? Don't know about NZ but road legal in Oz means recirculating type.
Aftermarket ECU - Link? Megasquirt? Talk to whomever is going to tune it. Haltech is good.
Hi performance coil: Coils. At these cylinder pressures spark breakdown is going to be an issue. Look at Zuboo's build or some of the others. You could use LS1 coils or similar. Means going to electronic distributor but is well worth it.
Fuel rail: Yes
Fuel pump: Consider running E85 if easily available. I have 280hp and an intank walbro. I would look at the new flex fuel compatible intank walbro etc 340LPH pumps out now
Injectors: ID750 or ID1000 (exspurt/injector dynamics injectors)
Fuel Pressure Regulator: Maybe. Generally this is a band aid for wrongly sized injectors. Do it right first time.

I don't see brakes on the list. You should look at better pads as an absolute minimum for something with 4 times the power. Suggest bigger brakes (look at Bewitched's use of new swift fronts).

Intake manifold makes a difference. Cultus one is good.

You are going to need to look at around 20psi of boost to reach your target. Make the system as efficient as possible to keep intake temperatures down and hence boost required as low as possible. Quality right sized intercooler, right sized piping and good temperature management. E85 helps or you need to look at sacrificing low down response with lower compression. Getting the engine build right will make a big difference as to how effective the parts will respond and final result.

A build like this is never cheap and will cost lots in repairs and fixes if done wrong. Good luck.

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 Post subject: Re: '86 Mk1 GTI AA33S rebuild in NZ
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:10 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:30 am
Posts: 81
Location: Wellington
Thanks Grape. I have been reading through a few of the builds such as mentioned and have identified people such as yourself and DMWDave as people to speak to about these sorts of things.

I'm currently on holiday in Florence, hence why I have left something's off the list. More of a place for me to put everything so I can refer to it.

Comments noted re: power,build quality, repair cost etc. I dont tend to cut corners, especially where it matters!

It's a long term project so I'll gradually build it up. I have been impressed with what some of the builds have completed!

Also need to look into road compliance and certification for NZ also. More red tape.

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 Post subject: Re: '86 Mk1 GTI AA33S rebuild in NZ
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:19 am 
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Location: Canberra
Enjoy Florence, was there 1 week ago. Hope you get a dose of culture in at the Uffizi while there!

Certainly the working knowledge of Dave (DMWDave) and Dan (Zuboo) on reliable big builds is there to see and follow. No point re-inventing the wheel unless that is your bag.

Ben (Puss-On-Boost) also had a previous big turbo build before the current K series Honda in the MK1 so his advice will be especially relevant.

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 Post subject: Re: '86 Mk1 GTI AA33S rebuild in NZ
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:53 am 
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Posts: 224
Location: Sydney
how good!

a little advice, build it once, i wouldn't bother building/setting the car up for a low boost application only to redo at a later date...thats crazy. just decide on what you want to do from the get go and then go about doing it.

some personal advice but...as Grape said running 300hp at the wheels is going to be expensive...expensive to build, maintain and get it right. running that kind of power is hard on the engine/driveshafts/drive lines and also in a MK1 would be scarey as hell haha. not to mention unless you are building it for racing/drags is super impractical something to keep in mind if you want to make it streetable...unless you want to convert it to 4WD haha.

My everyday mk1 build runs 10psi with 200hp at the wheels and breaks traction in 1st, 2nd and 3rd and in the wet is a real handful. that being said some of the newer engine managements systems can limit boost in low gears which helps to overcome this issue. With the power it currently has its super fun to drive, and could run that kind of power pretty reliably all day every day. While the engines been rebuilt, internals are stock and with proper fueling and engine management redline members have proven time and time again that the 13B are capable to running anywhere from 8 - 15psi on stock motors/internals.

In summary;
big boost = big dollars no matter what way you look at it. the end result though would be crazy
low boost = less dollars and still fun and def def more practical

it really all just depends on what you want. either way all power to you and GOOD LUCK


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 Post subject: Re: '86 Mk1 GTI AA33S rebuild in NZ
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:46 am 
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Location: Launceston, Tasmania
Love seeing another Mk1 rebuild :) So good!

Big plans too! Can't wait to see how you go with it. I can't agree with the earlier posts too, these guys know their stuff, if you aim high prepare to pay the $ but enjoy the build. Once thing I've learnt in my epicly long build is to enjoy the process as the end result is (hopefully!) worth it :)

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 Post subject: Re: '86 Mk1 GTI AA33S rebuild in NZ
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:30 am
Posts: 81
Location: Wellington
Thanks guys, super to hear from you so soon after posting .

Culture in Florence is being soaked up for sure!

Maybe I am being a little ambitious with the power figure, I'd rather have something that's fun to drive with a solid 200whp instead of a handful at 250-300. Not sure if the budget will stretch that far yet :)

Alexei I have read through your build as well as Zuboo and a few others so I know who to follow as 're-inventing the wheel is not my jam.

I have a friend who has an R32 that he has owned for about 10years now, with only 3 years of it being on the road. If I can get mine done in less time I'll be happy :)

Probably buying a house in the very near future so it can live in my own garage for a change, that will help progress.

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 Post subject: Re: '86 Mk1 GTI AA33S rebuild in NZ
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:30 am
Posts: 81
Location: Wellington
Alexei - going 4WD was a project I had considered. There are some 4WD Justy cars rolling around here. I have read all of Garndis build with what he did, along with another build that was done in Norway or Sweden to convert to RWD but that was insane. Currently its beyond my capabilities but if I find an AWD system here, I'd consider it.

Considering your build slips the rubber it would be great having that extra power being transferred to the rear and being put to use!

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 Post subject: Re: '86 Mk1 GTI AA33S rebuild in NZ
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:51 am 
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Posts: 187
YES! another mk1 build.

I have mk1 Gti and it is AWD now thanks to Jerry, Jimbo and Andy many other people who helped.
Luckyly, I live in UK and Justy is easier to get hold of here than down under.

My plan is to have my mk1 AWD low boost to start off with 200-ish Bhp to get used to it.
I'm building a high boost engine by re-inventing a wheel.... I'm building it with a few knowladgeable people from UK and yes I did ask Dave, too.

I have custom made Torsen LSDs for my front and rear. I will be using a welded VC or modified HD VC.
I think it will cost about $1500 Ozto get HD VC so I haven't got it made as yet.... but I have welded VC.
I'm just waiting to get my engine block modified by 1 of best in UK but for cheap so taking a long, long time!

If you want Justy parts, we can help you from UK!

Cheers
Atchi


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 Post subject: Re: '86 Mk1 GTI AA33S rebuild in NZ
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:30 am
Posts: 81
Location: Wellington
Hi Atchi,

I thought it only fair that this old girl gets a new lease on life as it still has so much to offer!

I have toyed with the idea of converting it to AWD through a Justy donor, maybe later in life that might happen as I know it is a huge adventure.

Fortunately I do not have to re-invent the wheel at all as I have read extensively other peoples builds and various threads about what they have done and achieved. Over 200hp on Vitara pistons is always a good thing!

Can you tell me what you are having done to your block?

My last hurdle that I have almost finished working out is building a gearbox that will handle the power!

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 Post subject: Re: '86 Mk1 GTI AA33S rebuild in NZ
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:58 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:51 pm
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Location: Chch - Quake Capital
The gearbox really is a weak link in the whole car, considering how hard Mk1 gearbox (esp mk1gti) parts are to find in NZ I would suggest going straight to the mk2/3 g16fwd sedan box, this is the larger frame gearbox which shares interchangeable internals with the current m16 swift sport, it will require a bit of engineering to sort out new gearbox mounts, but the rest of the parts like driveshafts , larger flywheel, clutch etc are later model stuff which will all bolt in to some degree.

If you were going to 4wd the car then you would just use the g16-4wd box and use a starlet or escort live axle, it already has a dead axle with panhard rod, would only require some top link pods welded into the floorpan, spring and shock mounts transferred over to the live axle, considerably easier than swapping floorpans or building an IRS rear end.

Food for though anyhow.


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 Post subject: Re: '86 Mk1 GTI AA33S rebuild in NZ
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:30 am
Posts: 81
Location: Wellington
Thanks Dattman, it was just yesterday I was trawling through all the threads around the "frankenbox" that Dave and some others were talking about. Piecing together all the information so I know what pieces I can use from which box, what ratio CWP I want to/can use, LSD etc.

There is currently one of those boxes for sale on TM and I have seen a few new Swifts in the wreckers around here, so it is the way I will go for a good box for the $$$.

I only knew about the Jutsy drivetrain fits nicely, interesting that the Starlet and Escort ends can be used as well. The car might even find its way over the water in the coming years to try out some of those twisty roads down your way!

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 Post subject: Re: '86 Mk1 GTI AA33S rebuild in NZ
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:58 am 
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Posts: 187
Hi,

I'm fitting bigger cast steel liners from other car then fitting CNC machined block guard as we as liquid steel grouting to make bottom end more or less solid.
I also using Vitara pistons but with 1mm macined off engine block to increase CR. I will be using fordged con-rods as well ARP fasteners through out.

My cylinder head will be port and polished and using modified inlet with SR20 throttle body.

I'm even considering dry sump as I have a CAD date from a guy in Sweden to make it!

I have money now but I don't have a time.... unlike when you are young, you have time but not money!

I have 3 AWD gearboxes. 1 is Just and 2 others are 1600Gti.

So if you want 1, I can help you.


Cheers
Atchi


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 Post subject: Re: '86 Mk1 GTI AA33S rebuild in NZ
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:30 pm 
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Location: Chch - Quake Capital
Howsie13 wrote:
I only knew about the Jutsy drivetrain fits nicely

It doesn't fit nicely at all in a mk1, the box will bolt to the engine but thats about it, new mounts required, firewall and tunnel would need considerable cutting and steering rack relocated, front hubs changed, nothing in the back end fits or is even remotely close which is why I suggested using a narrow live axle.

I would also suggest not using the 'Justy' reference as only the UK and parts of Europe had late model mk3 swifts badged as Justy's, every Justy in our part of the world is an actual Subaru and shares no parts what so ever.
There are plenty of 4wd sedans imported into NZ and a lot of them badged as Cultus Esteems, not to be confused with Baleno based Cultus's, there are very few 4wd hatches and even less 4wd Gti Cultus hatches, welcome to the confusing world of JDM Cultus naming :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: '86 Mk1 GTI AA33S rebuild in NZ
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:30 am
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Location: Wellington
Thanks for that clarification Dattman, I was confused around the "Justy" reference as I knew they were the Subaru Justy here.......

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 Post subject: Re: '86 Mk1 GTI AA33S rebuild in NZ
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:41 pm 
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You're not the first and definitely won't be the last :lol: Subaru Justy's were way ahead of it's time with the whole push button on the gear knob to engage the rear wheel drive thing, shame about the lack of power and brakes though.

My suggestion would be to keep your car as original as possible, there are so few in good condition they are becoming somewhat collectable, an original one will always be worth more than a modified one, maybe thats just my guilty conscience speaking after I took a low km 2 owner minter and stripped it out into a race car... I loved that car, it's now down Invercargill / Queenstown somewhere being thrashed, poor old girl :(

As for twisty roads, one of these years I will bring my car north over the water, never raced at Manfield and I'm pretty keen for a hillclimb up Moonshine Hill Road 8)


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 Post subject: Re: '86 Mk1 GTI AA33S rebuild in NZ
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:05 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:44 am
Posts: 187
Hi,

I know they are getting rare but they are also getting rusty in many places.
So I got Jerry to restore it for me and added AWD setup.......Haha.

Subaru Justy is from 1996 to 2000 and they are re-badged as Subaru. If you got Suzuki garage, they will say it's Subaru and same with Subaru garage.

Base is AF34S and you can fit G13B to it and in UK many of them are getting converted to Gti AWD.

Cheers
Atchi


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 Post subject: Re: '86 Mk1 GTI AA33S rebuild in NZ
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:48 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:30 am
Posts: 81
Location: Wellington
Went to do some work on the car, namely get it drive-able in preparation for relocation soonish for when the tear down and rebuild begins. It had a leaking front crank seal, needed new oil and a tune along with clutch adjustment and a few other things.

Previous owner had driven it without the oil cap on [-X so had oil all over the engine and in the spark plugs =D>

Managed to get a few things done, but was unable to crack the crank bolt despite throwing as much leverage as we could muster and a rattle gun at it, she did not want to budge. Regrouping to return with a weapon of leverage at a later date.

She is 30 years old, be kind. Has had some rough treatment while it was with the previous owner.


Attachments:
File comment: Original condition
IMAG1275.jpg
IMAG1275.jpg [ 1.14 MiB | Viewed 198 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: '86 Mk1 GTI AA33S rebuild in NZ
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:07 pm 
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Posts: 574
Location: New Zealand
Just out of interest I have the same vehicle model and a register of all GTi Swifts in NZ that I am aware of.
Could you PM me the rego number?


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 Post subject: Re: '86 Mk1 GTI AA33S rebuild in NZ
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:30 am
Posts: 81
Location: Wellington
FINALLY got around to doing some more work on the car over the weekend. Needed to replace a leaking crank seal and it was nice to get my hands dirty with grease and oil for a change rather than coffee (though it is harder to clean off).

Struggled with a 30yr old crank bolt, but a rattle gun, penetrating lubricant and some patience paid off.
Got everything off and then failed at putting the seal in in one shot. Short version, need another new seal :oops:

On the plus side, a friend found some legit SSR mesh rims that look pretty awesome on the car (tyres are just what were on there, was just checking the look, size, clearance etc) so happy with those. 15" x 6"

Keen to get it drive-able again and de-grease the engine bay to see whats what. (Previous owner forgot to put the oil cap on and went for a drive, not to mention all the oil underneath from the crank seal leak! Plus 30 years of road grime.)


Attachments:
File comment: Original extractors that will eventually be replaced with some turbo ones.
IMAG1591.jpg
IMAG1591.jpg [ 498.54 KiB | Viewed 177 times ]
File comment: Def need those bolt on flares :D
IMAG1587.jpg
IMAG1587.jpg [ 730.09 KiB | Viewed 176 times ]
File comment: Test rig. Car still jacked up and will be having new tyres.
IMAG1586.jpg
IMAG1586.jpg [ 656.3 KiB | Viewed 173 times ]
File comment: 30yr old crank bolt!
IMAG1595.jpg
IMAG1595.jpg [ 420.91 KiB | Viewed 172 times ]

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