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 Post subject: GTI into Cappuccino
PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:07 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:01 pm
Posts: 63
Location: Australia WA
Hey guys I've started a build with a GTI engine mated to a early Jiminy gearbox going into a Cappuccino. Engine is standard at this stage but plan on putting a IHI RHF4 VF25 turbo on it if its any good for the GTI engine. The turbo had been fitted to the 3 cylinder 660cc Cappo engine by previous owner, so that's why I plan to re-use it unless convinced otherwise. My Kind visiting brother in-law from the UK managed to blow the Cappo engine whilst I was working away and left it parked in my shed dirty and not a word said. Lucky he returned to the UK before I got home.

I have a few basic questions as I'm new to GTI's and the forum, so any sound advice will be appreciated.
I got my son to buy the GTI engine/loom etc (crashed) from guy in Perth off Gumtree as I work in Indonesia. Was advertised as 1994 Mk3 and ecu chipped.
How can I tell it is a MK3 and that the ecu is same?
What does the VF25 TURBO come off and will it suit the GTI?
I opened the ecu to see what chip was in it but cant find the socket with modified chip in it, unless chip has been soldered in?
I saw the steel layered head gasket on the forum for sale, are they better than standard as I bought some in Indonesia as they were cheap and brought back to WA. I hope to use one when the Cappo is running to build purpose turbo engine.

First time on forum so don't know if photos are attached or if I'm even in the correct section.
Regards GTI Cappo


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File comment: 4 layered steel gasket
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File comment: Can't wait for it to come off stands
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File comment: GTI engine going into Cappuccino
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 Post subject: Re: GTI into Cappuccino
PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:28 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:07 pm
Posts: 1065
Location: Western Australia
Hi Mate,

Welcome! :D

A Mk.3 ECU is labelled I2 in yellow letters on the casing. If the ECU chip is still soldered in without a socket and looks stock; then I might suggest that the EEPROM 'chip' advertising is possibly... *ahem*.... bullshit.

For engine identification here you go: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33988

I seem to remember that the VF25 comes from a SH-9 Subaru Forester XT (found this out because my wife drives a Fozza) and is quite well suited when combined with a reputable chip. They (the chips) are available from persons such as: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=34209 :wink:

The MLS will NOT let you down. But successfully going turbo always depends on the tune I guess.

Looking forward to seeing your progress. Are you located in Perth?

Cheers,

Drew

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 Post subject: Re: GTI into Cappuccino
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:01 pm
Posts: 63
Location: Australia WA
Hi Drew, thanks for detail and links in forum. I can remember the lug on the R/H side of the engine so should be MK3 and assume ecu is same. Once I get home, I will send ecu off to have socket fitted so I have the option to run turbo or N/A.
Progress has been slow looking for bits, plus working away doesn’t help. The conversion started out with a 12A rotary and Mazda R8 6 speed box, but with the g/box far too big for little Cappo tunnel and I saw the GTI engine on Gumtree the rotary was scraped. Now has a spot in the corner for a one day project. I also decided to keep it all Suzuki and look like a genuine Cappuccino GTI. and 2 spoons of sugar
Progress to date been fairly easy and straight forward.
• GTI engine to Jiminy g/box is plain bolt up but must use GTI p/plate with Jiminy c/plate as spline is larger.
• Cappo/Jiminy rear g/box mount modified into one. Completed.
• Cappo remote gear linkage assembly reused but torque rod & linkage extended. Complete.
• Cappo & Jiminy both run cable clutches so only need to make sleeve/spacer at g/box end.
• Drive shaft will be Jiminy extended.
• Purchased polyurethane bushes & sleeves to fab engine mounts. Required to be rigid as only 12mm clearance between cam belt & bonnet ribs plus same between sump, side of block and steering rack mounts.
• GTI sump redrilled, reversed, front cut down to clear rack & rear bowl cut to level with bell housing & front cross member. Serria oil pick up pipe to be modified.
• Cappo throttle cable too short so once its out will check end/length & hopefully can use GTI
• Radiator will be Honda civic 2 row 40mm alloy type with thermo fan from ebay. Ports are same side as Cappo.
• Turbo manifold will be the tricky bit for me but may buy S/S turbo one off ebay and mod it to fit the VF25 3 bolt turbo. I think the bends are too large and turbo will foul chassis rail. Also will try move it around and top mount it but don’t know how tight a bends I can get yet. Better still is get exhaust shop to make and wife to pay.
• Will use GTI ecu with turbo chip.
• Will use Mazda 323 turbo dizzy cap for now but would like to remove the dizzy and move engine back further. Costs are too high for aftermarket ecu and all that goes with it. I did think of driving the dizzy with a belt from the ex cam but then it would have looked like farmer browns shed special.
That’s all I can think of for now but will update once more has been done. Yes I'm WA but down south in Busso 3 hrs from Perth at snails pace.
If anyone knows or has done this conversion I would appreciate some advice or short cuts if I’m heading down the wrong track. Also thinking of getting a light weight alloy flywheel and front pulley from the USA if there are no negative reports on them??
Regards GTI CAPPO


Attachments:
File comment: self draining no drip sump
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File comment: vented free flow sump
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File comment: Cappo/Jiminy g/box mount
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File comment: VF25 Turbo
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File comment: gear linkage
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File comment: rack mounts to be cut & welded
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 Post subject: Re: GTI into Cappuccino
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:10 am 
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Posts: 1526
Location: Londoninium
Good work all looks well thought out, keep the pictures coming and dont let the brother drive it again.

GTP


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 Post subject: Re: GTI into Cappuccino
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:08 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:49 am
Posts: 3
Location: Australia
Hey mate.

Planning the same conversion in my cappuccino as well.
Will be watching this thread if plenty of intent to contribute but I'm still very much a newbie with engines.


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 Post subject: Re: GTI into Cappuccino
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:18 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:01 pm
Posts: 63
Location: Australia WA
Hey Doubleshot,
Get your ducks in a row, buy the bits you need then get into it. I put mine off for some time and really just missed driving it. I was going to kart tracks to get the same buzz. Hopefully with the GTI engine it will be double the buzz.
Once you have a plan its not hard. I will try record all I've done and what parts used for future reference and to share. No doubt I will stuff up along the way, but there are some smart cookies with all the experience on this forum and willing to share. Don't think we will be stuck for long if run into a problem.
Get into it and don't give up or someone else gets a bargain.
Cheers GTI CAPPO

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 Post subject: Re: GTI into Cappuccino
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:58 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:49 am
Posts: 533
Location: WA
Great project. These are a fantastic looking & handling little car.
There used to be one running in the Speed Event Series - it now has a mid mounted 'busa engine!

Hope to see it when you're done.

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 Post subject: Re: GTI into Cappuccino
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:01 pm
Posts: 63
Location: Australia WA
The Cappuccino is closest thing to road legal go-kart and you don't get wet if the roof is on. Mine had a whole wopping 51kw at wheels and now with the GTI-T engine in, hopefully it will think its on steroids. Once you drive one, the bug bites and you gotta have one. I was going to build another Lotus 7 but drove the Cappo and done deal Lotus hasn't had 2nd thought.
I know the Busa Cappo you mentioned, which is dry sumped and engine sideways in passenger foot well and is lethal. He has 2 Cappo's, the Busa one and a road legal one. I think he had the Busa build thread on here few years back. If I find a wrecked Cappo at the right price I would like to build purpose track one with cage, chopped firewall/tunnel for a wild G13b-T or Rotary 13b-T set back and low. Nice to dream, I haven't even finished what I got.

Regards GTI CAPPO

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 Post subject: Re: GTI into Cappuccino
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:59 am 
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Posts: 187
Any update?


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 Post subject: Re: GTI into Cappuccino
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:19 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:01 pm
Posts: 63
Location: Australia WA
Sorry no real update or significant work done on car this break. I did build a Jarrah deck for the wife and other jobs around the block, so next break will be all car time. Full 2 weeks I hope???
Did manage to build a 1/2 ton 6m mono rail with electric hoist over work area in new shed so Cappo can stay on stands now and engine can come in/out easier and not move car.
Got some manifold & turbo flanges water jet cut, thanks for the DFX files. Ordered 35mm ID mandrel bends so will practice my tig welding and give the manifold, engine mounts and sump a go. Been 15+years since last tig welded, like riding a bicycle you never forget, just a few falls or burns.
Sitting on the fence about leaving turbo off to speed things up and get finished so I can get it to the track or just drive it again. Turbo just lying there, turbo power or NA??????
Now that I have mono rail I will weigh cappo motor/box complete and same with GTI/jiminy box to see what difference is.

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 Post subject: Re: GTI into Cappuccino
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:14 pm 
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Posts: 43
Location: Japan
You may have already registered, but http://www.clubcappo.co.uk is a site with some Hayabusa an G13b powered Caps. Worth checking out if you haven't been yet.


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 Post subject: Re: GTI into Cappuccino
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:01 pm
Posts: 63
Location: Australia WA
I joined the clubcappo forum few years back but not much activity there lately. Anyway engine is the heart and a GTI so will follow Reline forum and learn more about the GTI engine. :D

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 Post subject: Re: GTI into Cappuccino
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 06, 2013 7:46 pm
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Location: BNE
subscribed :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: GTI into Cappuccino
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:49 am
Posts: 3
Location: Australia
Hey mate, Brian from the capp forums,

Yeah I know what you mean about just getting stuck in and doing it. Just struggling with funds right now but once they're in check again, it will be on the cards and charging through!


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 Post subject: Re: GTI into Cappuccino
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:48 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:01 pm
Posts: 63
Location: Australia WA
Hey Brian,
Sent you a reply & pm on capp forum about cappo body parts.
My struggle is to get things done/find parts etc. working away 6 weeks on and 2 off. I tend to burn the candle both ends, doing house hold things during day and into my shed when every one goes to bed.
I try get all bits I need delivered so when home I can get moving. No complaints just frustrating as I like to do things myself once, and only myself to blame too. Starting to farm things out where budget allows and to save time.
Something I did get done Last break and forgot to mention was: area where clearance was tight in tunnel and behind distributor has now been panel beaten. Was going to cut and weld, but no need now. I made a smooth convex shape tool to go in a small pneumatic hammer chisel I had. Worked a treat and looks factory.

I should get a fair bit done over Xmas as prep work been done, will post pic's and progress.

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 Post subject: Re: GTI into Cappuccino
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:51 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:01 pm
Posts: 63
Location: Australia WA
Hey guys, finally some progress in the shed with a few photo's. :D
Engine & box been in/out a few times trial fitting things, easy with electric winch/mono rail working on your own.
Progress to date:
Engine & gear box mounts done plus linkages with torque rod completed. Cappo gear leaver in same position & same H pattern. Jiminy drive shaft currently being lengthened/balanced with adaptor plate to suit Cappo diff to Jiminy tail yoke.
Mazda dizzy cap modified to suit GTI dizzy rather than right angle drive. Thermostat housing having ears welded on to allow it to be redrilled for 3 o'clock water out let for better cooling pipe alignment and to clear heater pipe from firewall.
Oil pickup modified to suit cut down and reversed GTI sump. Sump baffled turbo drain and dipstick tube welded each side.(2L oil capacity plus remote filter housing with oil cooler maybe another .5L ???)
Bored inlet manifold & Fitted SR20 60mm throttle body easy 5 min job with 60mm holesaw, didn't even remove the manifold, but engine was on stand. In a GTI could be done a right angle drive on battery drill see photo.
ECU chipped with CJ turbo chip and waiting. Putting off wiring till last and will need help there if anyone can help in WA, for a fee of course, or endless supply of the amber liquid stuff :lol:
Turbo Exhaust manifold being made now so should be ready in 6 weeks when next home.
Engines weighed.
Cappo 3cyl 660 complete with g/box, alt, s/motor turbo @ 109kg
Gti G13B complete with jiminy g/box, std f/wheel clutch assy, alt, s/motor, turbo and manifold flanges/pipes. 119kg
Rotary 12a engine carb/manifold, w/pump, dizzy & f/wheel clutch assy. @121kg NO G/BOX
So g13b looking good at 10 kg's more for hopefully twice the power of the Cappo?? or more

Some advice please on what else should/could be done to the injection/inlet side? Have 450x300x76 intercooler coming with 2.5 " in/outlets


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File comment: Mazda dizzy cap
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File comment: cut & welded GTi sump reversed
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File comment: SR20 60mm T/B bolts straight on
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File comment: Manifold bored out with 60mm holesaw & batt drill
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File comment: difference between Gti & SR20 T/B
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File comment: linkage & mounts complete
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 Post subject: Re: GTI into Cappuccino
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:23 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:23 am
Posts: 179
Location: adelaide
wow thats a engineering nightmare makes my suzuki swift gti convertible build look like changing a alternator belt.not much room there at all , ever thought about putting a motorcycle motor in there ? .looks like your getting sorted . very impressed =D> =D>


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 Post subject: Re: GTI into Cappuccino
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:07 am 
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Location: adelaide
running that sr20 thottle body 60mm bored out manifold ,you must have big plans, big turbo boast,big $$$$ for the rest of the engine, head, fuel system. turbo chipping to suit. cant run that throttle body on a stock engine


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 Post subject: Re: GTI into Cappuccino
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:01 pm
Posts: 63
Location: Australia WA
So far there's been nothing difficult in the project, that's still to come as in wiring and the injection side, only scary cause its new to me.

Project was going to have a crashed Honda Blackbird engine in it but got shelved cause Blackbird ECU miss matched to engine and cost climbing. Re sold the wreck for same price. Then came the rotary 12a with 6 speed box, but cappo tunnel too small to house such a big box. Now sitting in corner of shed for a one day project. Then missed out on complete Suzuki 1300 Hayabusa engine package, sold under my nose for next to nothing $1200 :cry:
Gti engine on Gumtree Perth and that's where I'm at now, rest is history. Might still try make a sequential box from a large m/c engine once Cappo is up and running.

Plan for now is get it running with all bolt on bits I can get on a budget and then build purpose turbo engine if really needed. To keep costs down I stayed with MK3 ECU(chipped for turbo) & standard dizzy. On that setup the hope is for 8--12 lbs boost and a reliable engine?? Already have a high maintenance ride and the reason its taking so long, don't want a second.

Why won't SR20 T/B work on what I've got/done so far & should I go back to the standard T/B ?? Open to any sound advise and willing to learn apart from taking up golf.

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 Post subject: Re: GTI into Cappuccino
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 1:59 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:23 am
Posts: 179
Location: adelaide
I'm no expert but what I've seen the 60mm sr20 throttle body is for big cams, high fuel.the fuel/ air ratio is going be out if you don't match it . as for the wiring i would get the whole gti wiring loom off a wreck to make it much easier.also get a workshop manual for the wiring diagram. i would leave the engine stock till you get it up and running, the stock engine is still very good and I'm not sure how the jimmy gearbox will handle the load.the gti gearbox is the weakest link in the drive train of a gti


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