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 Post subject: Re: M15A TURBO GTI
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:25 am 
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gtpswift wrote:
Well done, keep the updates coming.
We all like photos and stuff like that. makes me happy!
GTP


I will :-) hehe
Ill take some photos of it soon when I take it out the garage..
There's a nice layer of dust build up on the car
Its a been a while since its moved


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 Post subject: Re: M15A TURBO GTI
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:17 pm 
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Location: Perth WA
When you say modena lsd and driveshafts,
Do you mean frank made parts that suited your conversion, or that you have a Torsen lsd and mix/match driveshafts with parts from modena?
:) im just curious as i havent heard any work from them in some time (and my efforts to get a modena diff in a largeframe gearset netted me an unsuitable gti type torsen diff)
Lots of fresh parts, are you concerned about heat transfer from turbo manifold to the radiator?


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 Post subject: Re: M15A TURBO GTI
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:38 am 
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Location: vic
Bewitched Gti wrote:
When you say modena lsd and driveshafts,
Do you mean frank made parts that suited your conversion, or that you have a Torsen lsd and mix/match driveshafts with parts from modena?
:) im just curious as i havent heard any work from them in some time (and my efforts to get a modena diff in a largeframe gearset netted me an unsuitable gti type torsen diff)
Lots of fresh parts, are you concerned about heat transfer from turbo manifold to the radiator?


The Lsd and driveshafts were made for the car approx 5 years ago when the car was running low boost
The swift sport diff.. I'm pretty sure he didnt have off the shelf like the gti diffs, so that had to get made
And the driveshafts were made to measurements that were given

Yes the turbo manifold sits very close to the radiatior
But the heat does not affect it one bit..
The manifold has been hpc coated which helped heaps
And the radiator is a custom made (which was made a little bigger than needed) and the fan is crazy, works so well
On a cold night the car sometimes struggles to reach operating temperature
And temp goes back down into the 70s when driving for a while without stopping
During the day its a little better from 80-85.
I'm thinking of making a plate infront of the radiator to block part of it off


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 Post subject: Re: M15A TURBO GTI
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:48 am 
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Location: vic
Well.. dyno tune was yesterday..

Bit of a dissapointing day.. but I guess now I know the setup works really well
Came on soo much better and harder

Head couldnt stay down
Just gotta go back to the drawing board on this bit
Anyone got any advice, experience?

Only did 4 power runs on the dyno

1st run: came on so much harder and faster that it just torched and bounced off limiter
Tied it down harder

2nd run: did an impressive 240kwatw straight off the bat on 27psi
3rd run: did around 250kw on 28psi

And then 4th run on 28psi
Head lift 3/4 of the way through the run
Made 221kw but motor was only reved to about 7500 before it lifted

I've got two photos of the dyno graph from the fourth run
Anyone willing to post them for me to shut some people mouths on here


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 Post subject: Re: M15A TURBO GTI
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:02 am 
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Those figures on e85?

Didn't you just go bigger head studs to stop the head lifting?

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 Post subject: Re: M15A TURBO GTI
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:47 am 
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Location: vic
Pauly wrote:
Those figures on e85?

Didn't you just go bigger head studs to stop the head lifting?


98
Didnt even get to swap to 85 before it blew lol

Yeah went bigger head stud
I think that actually worked, it actually didnt lift this time like last
It just blew the head gasket between the water gallery and piston
So I guess once you stop it from lifting the pressure forced its way through the gasket...

I'm thinking about o-ringing the block
Any suggestions on this?


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 Post subject: Re: M15A TURBO GTI
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 pm 
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Location: Londoninium
what head gasket you using. didnt see it int he first post and missued it in others if mentioned at all.
Id be considering alternate better gasket, if standard, before o'ringing etc.

JP


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 Post subject: Re: M15A TURBO GTI
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:43 pm 
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Location: vic
gtpswift wrote:
what head gasket you using. didnt see it int he first post and missued it in others if mentioned at all.
Id be considering alternate better gasket, if standard, before o'ringing etc.

JP



I've been using the 1.4mm monster sport head gasket
I've heard they're pretty good?!?!?

I'm just gonna oring it, I dont wanna risk it happening again


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 Post subject: Re: M15A TURBO GTI
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:17 pm 
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Location: Londoninium
I will admit to no real knowledge about 'O'rings in Swifts. In Cosworths YB's however there was a time when the 'O' ring was popular But effectively limited reuse of blocks and when they went wrong ruined heads (which were/are very, very expensive)
The 'O'ring in the block top deck meant future skimming and surfacing was comprimised and if the head got 'soft' the 'O' ring dug into the, or forced the fire ring into the, head surface ruining that too.
Also 'O'ring alingment with fire ring in the gasket and the combustion chamber caused a number of not insurmountable but complex issues. Generally with more modern gaskets there has been a swing away from the 'O'ring to multi layer head gaskets. and long studding rather than pulling up from the block deck the studs are afixed deep in the block towards the bottom of the bore, causing less distortion to the block deck.
What surface preparation did the parts (head and top deck of block) undergo prior to assembly
Not saying its wrong or right just my experience and reasoning behind asking what gasket and what type it is.

GTP


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 Post subject: Re: M15A TURBO GTI
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:26 pm 
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:lol: :lol: I told you its got nothing to do with size of stud trust me i am wasy ahead of all these cock heads who claim there got power there is 1 problem that i know and still to this day i am wait for a big hob nob too come out and say.....


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 Post subject: Re: M15A TURBO GTI
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:10 pm 
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LUN81C wrote:
:lol: :lol: I told you its got nothing to do with size of stud trust me i am wasy ahead of all these cock heads who claim there got power there is 1 problem that i know and still to this day i am wait for a big hob nob too come out and say.....


The head didn't lift this time.. the studs helped
Thats why the head gasket let go..
Last time my head was lifting on boost and closing back up
This time I strengthened that so that part worked..

I know what the problem was..
I'm gonna make it work this time..

That thing you showed me isnt making the studs stay in the block any better,
As the end of the video says, it makes it back to original strength (not stronger)


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 Post subject: Re: M15A TURBO GTI
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:41 pm 
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mate i have had it done they alot stonger but do what ever you like i would put it stright on e85 it conbust easyer and burns cooler that will help a head gasket stay together last thing put the wolf in the bin and buy a haltec 8)


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 Post subject: Re: M15A TURBO GTI
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:51 pm 
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Location: Brisbane
Have you checked the deck height of the liner to the deck height of the block face?I know you've already got the darton liner setup but if the bottom of the block is weakening and collapsing like it does with the std liners then your still up s**t creek.The area that the head gasket blew in should be the area to check deck height first.O ringing the block and using a multi layer steel gasket are not normally done together.Have a look on the net for Wills rings,these are gas filled rings that are placed on top of each cylinder liner(machined to accept them of course),the idea is as the rings get hotter they expand the gas inside and seal even tighter,so the rings seal the combustion and the head gasket simply seals the water and oil.They were used a lot on aluminium engines with hi stress loads and were very effective and I think would be a good solution to your problem,after saying this if the bottom of the block is collapsing these wont work either and you would be looking down the barrell of getting a billet block manufactured.

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 Post subject: Re: M15A TURBO GTI
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:19 am 
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Location: vic
dmwdave wrote:
Have you checked the deck height of the liner to the deck height of the block face?I know you've already got the darton liner setup but if the bottom of the block is weakening and collapsing like it does with the std liners then your still up s**t creek.The area that the head gasket blew in should be the area to check deck height first.O ringing the block and using a multi layer steel gasket are not normally done together.Have a look on the net for Wills rings,these are gas filled rings that are placed on top of each cylinder liner(machined to accept them of course),the idea is as the rings get hotter they expand the gas inside and seal even tighter,so the rings seal the combustion and the head gasket simply seals the water and oil.They were used a lot on aluminium engines with hi stress loads and were very effective and I think would be a good solution to your problem,after saying this if the bottom of the block is collapsing these wont work either and you would be looking down the barrell of getting a billet block manufactured.


Thanks dave for the advice
Ill make sure I get the motor builder to check the block and Liners
I dropped the motor off yesterday and it will be opened next week

Ill look into the rings, they sound alright


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 Post subject: Re: M15A TURBO GTI
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:25 am 
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Will be anticipating the diagnosis, if the bottom of the block is flexing then a mains brace girdle or ladder brace should help (like SR20det and CA18det have) and cheap enough fix along with using JB-weld on the base rather than just press fit after heating the block.


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 Post subject: Re: M15A TURBO GTI
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:44 am 
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Location: vic
d wrote:
Will be anticipating the diagnosis, if the bottom of the block is flexing then a mains brace girdle or ladder brace should help (like SR20det and CA18det have) and cheap enough fix along with using JB-weld on the base rather than just press fit after heating the block.


Cracked sleeve on third cylinder
Between the piston and water hole

I can't jb weld the darton sleeves though can i?
The sleeves have a step at the top to stop them from moving or dropping

Ive got a feeling its something to do with the quality of the material or the hardness of it that's my problem..

I dont thing the blocks suffering any flex, sleeves dropping etc


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 Post subject: Re: M15A TURBO GTI
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:35 pm 
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Thats just tuning by the sounds of it otherwise those sleeves wouldnt crack!?
Good to hear the block is not flexing I figured as much as bike engines are
thin as wafers and boost well for what they are.

You need to replace one sleeve then?

and yes you can jbweld them even though they have a step


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 Post subject: Re: M15A TURBO GTI
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:23 pm 
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Location: vic
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=52643

Heres the dyno chart for any doubters that still exist out there..
Yeah its not the actual power it made (it made 248kw) but I have no paper to proove that because this dyno run overwrote the previous one which was higher..
But its all good ill settle for the lower one
So shatter about the cracked sleeve but good news.. the block was mint and sleeves didn't drop
So verdict was that it was a s**t material sleeve
There coming out and getting sent to darton in the USA so they can replicate them
The darton sleeves will work
They are a way better material.


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 Post subject: Re: M15A TURBO GTI
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:02 am 
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Good stuff Cappa, really stoked to see the torque on that thing its like a train!

As I mentioned earlier on a PM what size sleeves are they? I forgot what you wrote.

Dave Homer suggested Posts/dowells earlier on as a possible solution to open deck and slip on sleeves which was used in various engines in the past like the renault 807 and others but of late the Honda D16 guys aimed for something similar to what the latest mitsubishi evo all alloy replacement engine has had done (replacement engine for legendary 4g63) as engineers used strategically placed bits of casting like Honda guys use block posts to avoid the sleeves rocking back and forth as can occur on open deck engines.

Would save you a s**t load of money rather than go for cast iron units with thick cast iron tops which flex the block more than using posts which alloy maximum cooling all round.

You then grout the bottom and presto, cheap strong and ready locally sourced $30 normal stepped sleeves.

Here is the evo block (notice the casting notches on the sleeves making it a semi open block.

Image

http://www.amsperformance.com/cart/imag ... 00x800.jpg

and the Honda D16 post conversion and article way worth reading

http://www.onecamonly.com/showthread.php?t=2780

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: M15A TURBO GTI
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:58 pm
Posts: 812
Location: vic
Thanks
Yeah torque was through the roof
Car would be a rocket on the road
I already did damage on the road with 200kw and 600nm

Don't know what the sleeves were but they were made by some guy here in Melbourne.. Theyre s**t
I'm getting them made by darton now
So hopefully will have the motor back in the car In a few months time


Looking at the two photos you have posted
The blocks you are talking about are nothing like the m15a block..
The m15a block is a full floating bore design
Where as the two blocks you have posted are same as the gti g13b where all 4 bores are connected together!!
The gti block is very strong and handles power and boost

Not really a fan of the second photo (drilling Into the block) I wouldn't want to risk potentially weakening the outer block


I believe the darton sleeves will work..


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