It is currently Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:53 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: 381 WHP Suzuki Swift ZC21S Turbo 1600cc
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:58 pm
Posts: 812
Location: vic
Did u re sleeve the block
If not.. I would be expecting the motor to last long..
What head studs did u use
Like what grade arp because the standard arp ones don't work well


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 381 WHP Suzuki Swift ZC21S Turbo 1600cc
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:38 pm
Posts: 132
Location: indonesia
Pauly wrote:
=D> very nice power figures! I hope to see some footage from the drag day!

Any idea why the engines keep going through bearings?


hehehe thx bro

my 1st engine blown bearings was due too wrong instalation of oil cooler.. mis fit the in wit out
my 2nd engine, i thought was because the oil, my ex-mech chose 10w40 oil.. castrol edge.. i guess because of that

in a few japanese web i see that m engine is weak on bearings bcause of g force the bearing cant get enough supply of oiil.. so baffle plate needed


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 381 WHP Suzuki Swift ZC21S Turbo 1600cc
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:38 pm
Posts: 132
Location: indonesia
not so swift wrote:
Thats a great result and I would also like to see some video from the drag day :)

Are you still using the standard gearbox or have you made some changes to it? The Top Fuel 300hp Swift destroyed a third gear.

Also, when you had the TD05 with 192hp ate, did you have standard internals? I have a GT2860 on a standard engine and have 160hp atw on 9psi but we dont want to push it too far on standard internals. Would be nice to know what they can take so we can go higher if possible.


i've taken amateur video.. but still in friends cell and tablet, when i've finish editing, i'll post here..
stock gearbox.. only use 4G series mitsubishi clutch

i can only guess top fuel destroy it on touring race while engine breaking.. i only use for drag race..

yes 192 whp is stock internal.. it can still go for more.. 192 whp is m16a non sport with no oil jet at cranckshaft.. hope this helps


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 381 WHP Suzuki Swift ZC21S Turbo 1600cc
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:38 pm
Posts: 132
Location: indonesia
pictureshowman wrote:
On the video I thought I saw 385 hp?


yes it was the early runs.. my tuner tune down the hi rpm bcause it was too lean..

my tuner mr.ovi sardjan from haltech indonesia said Hi to every one here


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 381 WHP Suzuki Swift ZC21S Turbo 1600cc
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:38 pm
Posts: 132
Location: indonesia
cappa-wpn wrote:
Did u re sleeve the block
If not.. I would be expecting the motor to last long..
What head studs did u use
Like what grade arp because the standard arp ones don't work well


i dont resleeve the block.. stock block
i use arp headstud.. it was for saturn
part number is arp-165-4202
it work well


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 381 WHP Suzuki Swift ZC21S Turbo 1600cc
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:38 pm
Posts: 132
Location: indonesia
22 april was qualification for drag day.. sorry not much foto, i'll gather the pics..
indonesian christmas tree lamp is not race america, so no drag slip.. also it is total time.. not elapsed time.. very bad track quality.. dave can elaborate on this, he know sentul track well as he helped robert paul break indonesia record on quarter mile..

qtt 1 (qualification) i gain 13.427.. as this is my first 13s car, we dunno what pressure should we put on the r888 215/50/15 tires.. so we put 29 psi hahaha.. turns out i even cant drive straight

qtt2 (only 2 times given for qtt) i gain 13.014s.. the tire pressure is 15psi..

at heat 1, the weather is good.. eventhough i panicked at 3rd gear and shift at 7000rpm, i gain 13.038s..

at heat 2, i got lent a drag nitto semi slick tire 245/45/17.. very good grip even i have to increase the launch control, but the silicone hose detach, no boost goin into engine.. finish 14.980s..


i attach some pics, i'm sorry the drag slip cant get more official than this..

The head line written is april, the officials forgot to change to june, but u can see below issued at june


Attachments:
IMG-20130624-00101.jpg
IMG-20130624-00101.jpg [ 299.1 KiB | Viewed 163 times ]


Last edited by ddamddimddem on Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 381 WHP Suzuki Swift ZC21S Turbo 1600cc
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:38 pm
Posts: 132
Location: indonesia
this is my qtt times.. my number is 30..


Attachments:
IMG-20130624-00100.jpg
IMG-20130624-00100.jpg [ 187.58 KiB | Viewed 152 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 381 WHP Suzuki Swift ZC21S Turbo 1600cc
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:38 pm
Posts: 132
Location: indonesia
this is for comparison, cars that compete in 13s class (i enter 12s class, i only after best time, wnt to make 12s swift)


Attachments:
IMG-20130624-00102.jpg
IMG-20130624-00102.jpg [ 315.01 KiB | Viewed 154 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 381 WHP Suzuki Swift ZC21S Turbo 1600cc
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:58 pm
Posts: 812
Location: vic
ddamddimddem wrote:
cappa-wpn wrote:
Did u re sleeve the block
If not.. I would be expecting the motor to last long..
What head studs did u use
Like what grade arp because the standard arp ones don't work well


i dont resleeve the block.. stock block
i use arp headstud.. it was for saturn
part number is arp-165-4202
it work well


No offence man
But something doesn't sound right with the power you're saying This thing puts out
And what it actually is..
You're saying you made 300kwatw on like 24psi.. I'd love to see that
And on a stock m16 block that hasn't been sleeved..
Those bores would be moving around like crazy on that boost..
You would be breaking a head gasket non stop..
And your quarter mile time would be a lot lower than 13s..
I ran a high 13 with 160kwatw..

And the bearings failing wouldn't be because of the oil..
And I havnt had the baffle on my car and had no problem


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 381 WHP Suzuki Swift ZC21S Turbo 1600cc
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:23 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:00 am
Posts: 3527
Location: Brisbane
cappa-wpn wrote:
ddamddimddem wrote:
cappa-wpn wrote:
Did u re sleeve the block
If not.. I would be expecting the motor to last long..
What head studs did u use
Like what grade arp because the standard arp ones don't work well


i dont resleeve the block.. stock block
i use arp headstud.. it was for saturn
part number is arp-165-4202
it work well


No offence man
But something doesn't sound right with the power you're saying This thing puts out
And what it actually is..
You're saying you made 300kwatw on like 24psi.. I'd love to see that
And on a stock m16 block that hasn't been sleeved..
Those bores would be moving around like crazy on that boost..
You would be breaking a head gasket non stop..
And your quarter mile time would be a lot lower than 13s..
I ran a high 13 with 160kwatw..

And the bearings failing wouldn't be because of the oil..
And I havnt had the baffle on my car and had no problem



His dyno slip reads correct, and over there they race on closed roads it takes more than big hp to get down the track quick. I'm sure over time the times will come down. It would be good to see mph.

With the open deck it's not going to fail straight way but will put more strain on the head gasket. You never know the bores might be stronger in the newer engine.

_________________
A dyno will tell you anything you want, the 1/4 mile will tell you the truth!!!!
Image
12.10@125mph ST, 58.98 sprint track@QR, 61.6 Lakeside, 294HP ATW


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 381 WHP Suzuki Swift ZC21S Turbo 1600cc
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:38 pm
Posts: 132
Location: indonesia
cappa-wpn wrote:

No offence man
But something doesn't sound right with the power you're saying This thing puts out
And what it actually is..
You're saying you made 300kwatw on like 24psi.. I'd love to see that
And on a stock m16 block that hasn't been sleeved..
Those bores would be moving around like crazy on that boost..
You would be breaking a head gasket non stop..
And your quarter mile time would be a lot lower than 13s..
I ran a high 13 with 160kwatw..

And the bearings failing wouldn't be because of the oil..
And I havnt had the baffle on my car and had no problem


No bro idont feel offended.. I'm okay for discussion.. 381whp is 284kw..
I took video of the max boost.. I'll post on utube.. Not everyone can succesfully hiboost m series in indonesia.. I think torqueing the head have significant role.. Also maybe the MLS mahle head gasket have certain role.. Torqueing m series head had to follow suzuki workshop rule.. My friend blown his gasket at 0.8bar zage turbo..

Yes bro, i was hoping for low 12 but r888 215/50/15 is certainly not the tires to do those time.. Slick tires are pricey, also i'm not very confident with stock driveshaft..

Well on my current engine i fitted the acl race bearing.. Hope it lasts

I myself is very surprised with the dyno result.. Last big powered swift is m15a 258whp.. If i remember correctly it was using comp turbo.. So i thought at most i'll have 270whp.. Turns out it give a lot more! Hell i wont believe its m16a if it's not my ride.. Hehe

Zuboo is right, we race on closed lap circuit of sentul.. Fastest fwd is 11.7s it is turboed H22 eg hatch honda, 600fwhp with wheelie bar.. Hard modified gtr35 with slicks is high 9..
This is total time.. Not elapsed time..

There's no official speed trap, but i record thru my defi, tapping the ecu speedsensor going to Electronic power steering ( i tried tapping the speed sensor going to ecu, but it gives weird numbers, than i tried tapping the signal from ecu to EPS module, turns out it read more accurately, closer to speedometer, confirmed with gps, and the same with obd reading).. Also it's possible max speed might be after i pass the finish line, since i dont precisely lift off my gas pedal while passing the finish line.. But the defi record is 206kph.. About 128 mph..

Thanx zuubo,mI really hope it can do low 12s.. Not many race with suzuki, u can see i'm the only one at that class, But still dunno much how to do the traction.. Only available final gear is 3.94 of ignis sport currently on 4.235.. Is this sufficient? Will changing the 1st gear with monster super close gear ratio will give a lot of benefit?

Thanx alot zuboo for confirming my dyno
I would feel really honored to be in redlinegti dyno ranks..

The machining shop said eventhough the m sries block is aluminum, the bore is like a diesel bore..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 381 WHP Suzuki Swift ZC21S Turbo 1600cc
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:58 pm
Posts: 812
Location: vic
They're a floating bore design..
That's why I re-sleeved my block like the new monster super swift was done
Because after 10psi the motor was far too unreliable..
Mseries stock are Terrible for boost..
I honestly reakon the g-series motors are stronger in the bottom end


At the moment I'm on 200kw atw and using those r888.. they seem to work ok..
I've heard micky Thompson et streets are the way to go


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 381 WHP Suzuki Swift ZC21S Turbo 1600cc
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:00 am
Posts: 3493
Location: Brisbane
I definately agree that the tracks in Indonesia are not good for fast times, when I did the full couple of seasons of drag racing there with Robert Paul most of the tracks outside sentul were just straight bits of public road(closed to traffic for the weekend).
Sentul circuit does not lay down the traction compound we are so used to in Aus,so getting a good launch comes down to tyres more than anything else, the track is usually covered in very fine dust(worse than sand )so applying traction compound to the tyres themselves is pretty futile unless you have the power to do a big burnout to clean them before starting.The track is also far from smooth but is still the best drag surface they have.Compareing sentul times to a prepped aussie track you could knock at least 1.5 secs off the sentul time if running a proper prepped track.
When my daughter(katrina )was racing our new swift (1.5 turbo, 190hp atw) the best she did on a prepped track on R888 was 12.42 , so your goal of a 12 sec run at sentul is possible if you can get a good launch(which would equate to a 11 something sec run here).
Katrina used to break driveshafts and diffs but we were using m15 stuff at the time, once we changed diff to the m18 liana diff and driveshafts to the m18 shafts it was much better but always a worry.
I would drop your start pressures down to 9 psi and you should pick up time from the launch, just be careful under brakes as it will squirm around a bit.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 381 WHP Suzuki Swift ZC21S Turbo 1600cc
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:38 pm
Posts: 132
Location: indonesia
cappa-wpn wrote:
They're a floating bore design..
That's why I re-sleeved my block like the new monster super swift was done
Because after 10psi the motor was far too unreliable..
Mseries stock are Terrible for boost..
I honestly reakon the g-series motors are stronger in the bottom end


At the moment I'm on 200kw atw and using those r888.. they seem to work ok..
I've heard micky Thompson et streets are the way to go


I can assure you my engine is still stock bore as we havent found any reliable machining shop here.. But there's one that agreed to experiment on my friends m18a soon to be m19a (though not very soon, still waiting on funding), resleeve it and groutfilling it.. It was thinking about it, but with what i acquaire with m16a, i think im gonna stay at 1600..
Oww ok mickey thompson.. I'll check the price here..

Thx dave..
So the most crucial next mod is traction, hope at next event i can break the 12 sec barrier.. Maybe fastest suzuki at indo? Hehe

Hmm driveshaft seem to be always the problem.. Problem is zc31 is not available at indo, i have to order from singapore if something happen to the shaft..

Okay will try that dave, thx a lot fo the input


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 381 WHP Suzuki Swift ZC21S Turbo 1600cc
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:09 pm
Posts: 1154
Location: Melbourne
=D> =D> =D> Congratulations again for your effort, for posting all the info and also for being the only Suzuki there to beat a couple of Ferraris and plenty of Hondas =D> =D> =D>

Floating sleeve engines suffer at high boost pressures but good tuning is essential to keeping them together amongst other things like correct head bolts, torque settings, head and block surface finish when using MLS gaskets.

Im not pointing the finger at anyone but plenty of peeps do suffer with all kinds problems in turbo builds for not tuning them properly as soon as possible. They instead let them suffer extended detonation instead of towing their ride to an experienced dyno tuning professional ASAP.

The alfa romeo twin cam 8v all alloy engine does suffer from high boost pressures as the floating sleeves move around even more here due to having through bolts that are supposed to take some of the slack from the weak block walls and head gaskets let go often. The success of one Melbourne tuner is very simply to use JB weld to secure the sleeves in and grouting.
Mind you although it will only accept 1 or 2 more bore upsizing or rebuilds, sleeves can be completely machined away if need be or just use a new block.

Here r sample pics of JB weld alfa block, its cheaper & decent enough for most.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/attachments/engine-conversions/139490d1242348906-8v-2l-twin-charged-my-little-project-img_6124_10_1.jpg
Image

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/attachments/engine-conversions/139497d1242349058-8v-2l-twin-charged-my-little-project-img_6141_7_1.jpg
Image

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/attachments/engine-conversions/139494d1242348943-8v-2l-twin-charged-my-little-project-img_6133_14_1.jpg
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 381 WHP Suzuki Swift ZC21S Turbo 1600cc
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:36 am
Posts: 89
Location: England
I built my engine in the uk 2 years ago now and have been running the hks turbo kit since, I have done 35,000 miles on the engine and around 25,000 was on 10psi 200 at the fly and now I'm on 17 and at 240 at the fly which it has been running for the last 15,000 miles and gets driven very hard, I'm using the same rods and pistons as this build here, same head gasket and same head studs, only difference is I'm running standard cams and standard bearings. The only issue I have had so far is with the oil seeping over the front of the block very slightly but not enough to make the oil level drop (I'm told this is common with boosted engines running mls head gaskets ) and I also see the smallest sign of oil in the coolant on top of the rad cap but it is very tiny... There's no sign of water in the oil though. So it may even be that the oil n water in my turbo is mixing I'm not sure? Anyway just thought I'd mention this as I know the pressures I'm running aren't as high as this but it shows that it can be a reliable engine as fingers crossed I have had no reliability issues at all related to my engine itself, it's compression checked regularly etc and I'm constantly checking it over and it seems nice and healthy still. I change my oil very regularly though... And I use 10w60 millers nanotech oil


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 381 WHP Suzuki Swift ZC21S Turbo 1600cc
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:38 pm
Posts: 132
Location: indonesia
@d
Hehehe thank you d! It's always a pleasure to beat them hahaha..

Thanx for the info d! How about block guard? Are they useful? I didnt install one, as we tried to make custom block guard but the machining shop said the water jacket too small for blockguard..

@lee
Hi lee! How are you? I lost your email hehe.. I ask headstuds p/n from u right?
Great that your swift is doing fine..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 381 WHP Suzuki Swift ZC21S Turbo 1600cc
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:09 pm
Posts: 1154
Location: Melbourne
The alfa engine is open deck no block guard & no need with grout.
Max rod angularity is halve way up the bore so grout helps here
quite well compared to block guard at the top or near the top.

A honda build I saw uses posts drilled, tapped and screwed halve way
down the block intruding on the bore are by 1-2mm which is machined
to fit the iron sleeve. These posts are locktited & been alloy see little
heat compared to the top of the bore and should work perfect.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 381 WHP Suzuki Swift ZC21S Turbo 1600cc
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:38 pm
Posts: 132
Location: indonesia
Thanx d,
Btw i have a new problem..
At heat 2 drag day, after changing into a more grip tire, i think the clutch also slipped..
After i engage to 2nd gear, the silicone hose detach, i experience very rich mixture, but everytime i shift it hit red line spontaneously like the wheel is spinning of no traction, which is impossible, because no boost is going into engine.. So i guess it slipped..
I only launch 3 times using that tire, with first two only till engange 2nd gear just to determine a good rpm for launch control..Is it getting too hot that it slipped after some big torque?
As till today i have no clutch problem, but i never launch the car, only rolls and boost.. Not abuse..

Than i look into my current exedy spec..
A mitsubishi mirage 4g92 exedy stage 2 clutch..
http://www.exedy.co.uk/en/sports/vehicl ... code-4g92/

It is 215mm diameter in size
6900 nm clampload (other web uses kg, only exedy use nm, i dunno if theres a conversion from nm (force) into kg (mass)
With only 190 nm torque capacity!

It surprises me how it can survive many dyno runs, already uses this clutch more than a year.. Since dynoing my 192whp setup then dyno 205whp setup, and furthermore the 381whp setup..

At 381whp even the car literally push forward on top of the dyno when it hit 1.6bar implying all the big torque is succesfully channeled by the clutch..

I read here
http://mantic.com.au/sub_technical/clamp_v_torque.html

That increase friction coefficient will increase torque capacity of clutch..
I use that 4g92 in reverse of the way it should.. Since gearbox of mirage is at driver side, while swift zc is at passanger side..
I guess maybe the reversing helped the torque capacity..
Since it only rated for 190nm on the flywheel, but the m16a is producing 444nm on wheel.. It's only possible that the torque capacity hv been raised right?

I guess i'll have to find a replacement clutch.. Using the current will not last long if abused..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 381 WHP Suzuki Swift ZC21S Turbo 1600cc
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:38 pm
Posts: 132
Location: indonesia
After a long search i found a few replacement candidates

1. Exedy hypersingle vf for swift sport zc31s
http://www.exedy-racing.com/racing/en/p ... le_vf.html

Its a hybrid with 2 combine surface, u can look at the web, combination of ceramic and organic, saying that this will increase drivability, although at the other web i read this is just a marketing gimmicks..

Sh01sdv
200 mm in size (smaller than currnt)
9800nm clampload
954usd without shipping from japan (cheaper shipping from aus, hk, eu or us)

I guess this clutch will weared fast too, only increase of 1900 nm and smaller diameter..


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group